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Make launching a kite safer

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alexglebov
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Re: Make launching a kite safer

Postby alexglebov » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:20 pm

grigorib wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:18 am
In such steady wind if you launch and kite “drifts” downwind, I’d prefer to be upwind of both a pilot and the helper, as pilot shouldn’t have signaled the launch and neithe the helper should have released the kite. So staying upwind of unpredictable is your friend.
In gusty/strong wind your single hand grip might need to produce 150+ lbs of force to compensate your body weight. Not everyone can do that and then you will be destroying your kite and put people/property downwind of you at risk.

Above technique proves somewhat useful when broken shells are present on the beach, unfortunately, rather useful to local repair shops which might probably sponsor such methods of launching.

Checking the lines is pretty wise move some often forget though
You are not producing 150+ lbs of force when you hooked in, because you are not hanging from the kite straight down. This force is applied sideways and if 150+ lbs force pull you from the hook you are not going to keep the balance. If you are holding a chicken loop in your hand you can brace with your legs more naturally and effectively, think about tag-a-war game, your foot start slipping before you even let go of the rope.
Properly de-powered kite at the edge of the wind window will produce much less force than 150 lbs, somewhere around 20 lbs force, maybe less. Should be able to hold the kite by the chicken loop easily, if not then you are rigging way too big a kite for the conditions.
I wish kite schools teach students how to hold the kite by the chicken loop only at the edge of the wind window, they should be comfortable doing that. The less student touches the bar the better, I see quite opposite on the kite beaches right now - beginners grip the bar too tight and pull the crap out it during launch. How many times you have kite collapse over you when you are launching someone and they stay way upwind and start pulling that bar.

PullStrings
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Re: Make launching a kite safer

Postby PullStrings » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:43 pm

alexglebov wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:20 pm
I wish kite schools teach students how to hold the kite by the chicken loop only at the edge of the wind window, they should be comfortable doing that.
I teach just that BUT hooked in the chicken loop with donkey stick...similar idea yes.....but makes a lot more sense !!
BECAUSE all riders need to know to react fast at activating QR using one of their hands...and you can't teach that IMPORTANT move if unhooked to start with !!
I teach CONFIDENCE by letting go the bar completely with the kite on it's wingtip at the edge of the window stable on the sand in any strength of wind
I teach it when they prepare to launch and also very important when they set it down to land their kite and are looking assistance that may take a minute to come

After long session TIRED just set your kite on it's wingtip / depower it if needed / stay hooked in / let bar go COMPLETELY and RELAX
Walk yourself upwind a bit to stabilize the luffing canopy and the kite will just sit there nice and pretty...you can REST...no need to rush anything
Then and only then should an assistant just grab it tight and just put it leading edge down...very simple

I am not a fan of assistants catching kites on the fly at landings
I am not a fan of assistants tossing kites in the air at launches

Don't toss ....don't catch

IF i want an assistant to help me i do this:
I will take my own kite from LE down and hold it firmly down on the sand at the edge of the window
Then will show the assistant how to hold it downward exactly and not to lift it off the sand
Then i tell him that i will go to my bar / hooked my self in and position myself in a way to put a bit of wind in the kite to make it rest nice and stable
Do my final lines check....adjust trimmer if i feel the kite needs more depower
I will then give the assistant a thumbs up sign & at the same moment a loud shout OK...at that moment i will NOT be holding my bar..but HOOKED in..hands near QR
I will want the assistant to just simply take both hands off the kite LEADING edge...kite resting stable on wingtip and walk backwards about 6 feet

Once done i then grab my bar with ONLY my upper hand to make the kite rise SLOWLY off the sand while the LOWER hand is on the QR

Got thousands of successful launches under my power belt
Cheers
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alexglebov (Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:31 am)
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onelaunch
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Re: Make launching a kite safer

Postby onelaunch » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:19 pm

HI there,
thanks Toby for sharing, it's nice of you.
Thank you people for commenting.
thank you alexglebov for your "smart" answer concerning the weight, nothing to add...
I would just keep as a conclusion that if you can't hold your kite by the chicken loop, you probably should take a smaller kite or not even consider going out (except for Toby but he's an Alien). I tryed this technique with wind up to 45knots on a 8m² (i don't recommend going out in such wind) and it works perfectly.

Cor said "what's the value here?":
The value is that if things go wrong and that you don't react properly, the problem will be solved anyway. Sometimes people just don't see a problem coming or get distracted... a philosophical sentence sums it up really well, it's says "shit happens". If shit happens, you won't get your ass kicked. In a perfect world, you are right, having your hand on the QR is working really well.

"Knotwindy" This way of launching isn't the only safe way but it is a "fuckup filter" that works really well. It helps people understanding that the tension in the front lines and kite stability come from your position instead of coming from a bar pressure. But please, teach me your science since I don't know how a kite works.

thank you for the people bringing useful and sensful analysis. For the others, please show us your work ;) can't wait, pop corn is ready !
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alexglebov (Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:07 am)
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dylan*
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Re: Make launching a kite safer

Postby dylan* » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:53 pm

Honestly you should save the popcorn for the kooks trying to launch unhooked. Much more entertaining to watch the havoc they cause than the way 99.9% of other kiters do it more safely.
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foilholio (Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:10 pm)
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jms
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Re: Make launching a kite safer

Postby jms » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:16 am

I started doing this when self launching because when I screwed up a self launch, even though my hand was on the quick release, it all happened too quickly to eject. This method provides an automatic failsafe, instead of requiring the user to push the release. Seriously, I remember flying through the air on the beach with my hand on the QR and not being able to push it. Obviously it all ended up fine and I was able to hit the QR after hitting the sand, but I'd rather not be in that position in the first place.

Yes, it's more difficult to launch that way at first, especially if you're not familiar with unhooking, but I do it this way even in crazy conditions and have had no problems. Worst case was I had to run downwind a bit to keep the pressure off the chicken loop.
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alexglebov (Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:54 pm)
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PullStrings
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Re: Make launching a kite safer

Postby PullStrings » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:53 am

onelaunch wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:19 pm
I tried this technique with wind up to 45 knots on a 8m² (i don't recommend going out in such wind) and it works perfectly.
WOW !! .....up to 51 miles an hour !! ......and it works perfectly !!
Again WOW because my limit would be up to 36 NUTS !!! .......41 miles per hour

Image

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Re: Make launching a kite safer

Postby longwhitecloud » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:37 am

been launching unhooked for a long time, yes you need a flagging leash - non flagging leash kites are just so dumb

do not hang on if it starts to go bye bye

learning confidence unhooked is a great way to stay safe.

People naturally try to hang onto kites gone wrong- riders need to learn how to let go too and that comes with unhooking confidence - even practicing releasing the kite over and over again

kiteboard lessons are ridiculous when they dont let you learn this - too worried about kite$

i good teacher will teach this first - how to get muscle memory/ confidence to release

so many lowlife instructors out there that dont even show how to use the quick release.

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deniska
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Re: Make launching a kite safer

Postby deniska » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:47 pm

onelaunch wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:19 pm
I tryed this technique with wind up to 45knots on a 8m² (i don't recommend going out in such wind) and it works perfectly.
wow.. maybe it's your 8m, cause in 40kts+ with my 7 someone has to hold me while I walk to water. :-)
I routinely self land/launch using anchor method and once in a while I end up with a situation when a gust rips the chicken loop out of my hand.
Basically, I consider the part when I re-hook from anchor to the harness and back the sketchiest part of my routine.
Also consider doing this in 5mm claws and it gets even sketchier.
So why would you expose yourself to this extra risk if you have a helper? Just launch with one hand on the QR and train your reflex.. problem solved.
If you do it your way, you
- have a kite bouncing on the beach unnecessarily (that can't be good for the kite)
- you wrestle with the kite in any serious wind and your attention is away from the kite while you are hooking it and fixing DD (any gust / lull during this phase and you could be f*cked as you not actively sheeting the kite at this point)
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PullStrings (Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:58 pm)
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tomtom
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Re: Make launching a kite safer

Postby tomtom » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:21 pm

All these techniques are from empty uncrowded big sandy beaches - with quite stable and non shifting winds. Can you imagine that people start from much less ideal condition? And other option is not kite at all... Resting with kite on edge... Yea i want your beach...

Most important part what assistant do is keep kite in one safe place regardless wind shift. Quite usually there are kites, peoples, catamaran,s boats, sun umbrellas, windsurfers with fins up and other shit on beach to just catch your lines if kite moves and then show starts.

These technique are not universal usable and can lead to big trouble if somebody did not understand whole picture - so they should not be promoted without disclaimer that they need beach on moon or mars to execute them.

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Re: Make launching a kite safer

Postby PullStrings » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:58 pm

deniska wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:47 pm
So why would you expose yourself to this extra risk if you have a helper? Just launch with one hand on the QR and train your reflex.. problem solved.
your attention is away from the kite while you are hooking it and fixing DD (any gust / lull during this phase and you could be f*cked as you not actively sheeting the kite at this point)
Wow well said :wink:
My reflex are very good when i drive my old car....don't have fancy sensors that will stop my car for me
I can hit the brake real quick because i'm focused not distracted when driving....and when launching it's a full time job the windier it is
Take it off the gas
Put it on the brake
1/2 second top
I use my right foot for gas and brake and i have to move it around a few inches
I don't know if the guy who made video drives with left foot over brake all the time and brakes with left...whooo hoooo !!
My reaction time to any f**ked launch is the same 1/2 second
Push...twist...whatever

Plus in that video like you say you still have to hook in and look away
Well...what if as you walk to the water fully hooked in the kite shoots into a loop because one line snapped...or one bridle or pulley snapped...or LE blows and deflate
Sure hope the reflexes are trained to the 1/2 second to release

I see no advantage at all holding the CL in one hand
It's overkill
Just sayin


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