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easily reset chickenloops

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purdyd
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Re: easily reset chickenloops

Postby purdyd » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:58 am

iriejohn wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:19 pm
That works only with very low load.

ps As it happens I use Ozone V4 bars, but not the CLs.

hth
It looks intriguing to me because if you had a load ion the line you could hold it with one hand and plug the chicken loop back in.

A regular cloop quick release would take three hands to do that .

I’m thinking that rope slider cloop (I have one) looks more practical for self landing using s tether or handing off to another person.

Or simply resetting the cloop.
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Re: easily reset chickenloops

Postby Sun » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:30 am

purdyd wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:58 am

It looks intriguing to me because if you had a load ion the line you could hold it with one hand and plug the chicken loop back in.

A regular cloop quick release would take three hands to do that .
That is the absolute beauty of the Ozone click in loop. You can reset it quite literally with one hand as is shown in Gunnar's video. Naturally this means that you need two hands when there is load on the center lines, but unlike many other releases you do not need to fiddle to get the loop reset. It becomes very easy to reset under a load using two hands unlike pretty much every other chicken loop on the market. Even some of the best like the North / Duotone and Cabrinha chicken loops are a pain to reset if you accidentally trigger the release partway through resetting it, or drop the pin early, or are generally unlucky. The Ozone system requires absolutely nothing other than pushing the loop back in. The cuff falls in place perfectly every time, and you do not need to push it up for anything other than releasing. Before the Ozone system came out I was a die-hard fan of the North iron heart. But I have seen the light now.

If the industry does not adopt this is a standard, I will be extremely upset with everyone. I want Duotone to combine this QR mechanism with that excellent ceramic bearing on the click bar.

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Re: easily reset chickenloops

Postby downunder » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:34 am

Right.

And huge # of people never release, or release incidentally, or do not release even in death situation.

Trust me, the more "bulletproof" solutions, more simplistic and shallow approach to this sport = more incidents.

Simply put, the chicken loop is a convenience for many riders. Many never ever unhook. So do we really need a CL? Absolutely not. Do we need a hook? Nope. But the industry did not find anything better.

The only valid approach is education and self training.

And this is NOT one hand operation (1.44), not even literally. It's a good release, all right. Takes some force to put it back, which some releases out there does not require. So, one problem replaced by another in some sense.



Here, one hand reset with no load release. Something to think off...



Plus, release under load:

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Re: easily reset chickenloops

Postby nixmatters » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:26 pm

Some concerns about this wichard shackle:
1. What happens if you accidentally lock the release rope with the wichard shackle while closing it onto the slider rope?! No safety at all?
2. In a cricical situation, how quick do you find and grab the red ball? Does it come any close to hitting a large push socket without even properly grabbing it?
downunder wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:34 am
Right.

And huge # of people never release, or release incidentally, or do not release even in death situation.
...
Trust me, the more "bulletproof" solutions, more simplistic and shallow approach to this sport = more incidents.
....
Here, one hand reset with no load release. Something to think off...


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Re: easily reset chickenloops

Postby downunder » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:19 pm

You will need to watch other vids when I address this, and post them.

1) use short rope.
2) for me it’s quick. Large push socket is nowhere near large, it is impossible for the ball to open anything.

The same question can be asked for any bar, right? What happens if some dirt, sand or whatever is in the release mechanism? Incidental opening? Any bar can do that.

This is not a discussion about safety, which anyone will try to address, but the one hand operation for a sliding rope harness, or not releasing under/without the load.

Why would anyone use a normal chicken loop on a sliding rope is beyond my understanding.

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Re: easily reset chickenloops

Postby Foil » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:27 pm

I HAD to use the whichard back in early 2001,
and at the time is was better than what was around then,
at the time though even kitesurfing outlets were selling the bad whichard edition, the pull pin, which was a death trap, as it would not release under load, i had that one, bought from a big kite shop in Tarifa, it was useless, and there were frantic discussions back then on the forums about it, but the name whichard was the looser as many people link whichard as that release that does not release,
I threw mine out to sea as soon as I got my hands on the correct one which sort of did work, but, it was rubbish if you were wearing gloves, the tiny rope and ball is too small, I modded mine so I could find it, even using a velcro strap to keep the pull line in place.
but one or two missed releases made me change to something else, back then being able to release was so much more important as kite power was brutal, depower was not anything like ok, it was appalling, depower came from your legs and edging power to slow things down,
Quick release was the art of sitting down on the water at high seed and digging in your edge before releasing your edge to use your bum to bring you to a stop.
one failed quick release ended up with me being lofted and smashed into a sea wall, breaking tib and fib and my exposed sharp edged leg bones cutting through my new dry suit,
I remember one mod I made that sort of worked better was using power Q line to replace the soft line pull, Q line is stiff and does not blow around as much.
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Re: easily reset chickenloops

Postby purdyd » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:28 pm

downunder wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:19 pm

This is not a discussion about safety,

Trust me, the more "bulletproof" solutions, more simplistic and shallow approach to this sport = more incidents.

Why would anyone use a normal chicken loop on a sliding rope is beyond my understanding.
I'm trying to understand your logic here, simpler bulletproof solutions are bad = more incidents. So since the wichard is simpler and bulletproof it is also bad?

And this is not a safety discussion but about one handed operation and release under load, which are of course about safety.

If you can't understand why someone would use a normal chicken loop with a rope slider? Really?

The wichard gate opens out, so you want to be clear of the gate. The release is small so you have a small string with ball or I used to use a small piece of webbing, orange. It is one side operation, that is you want to grab the ball from the side that it will open.

It does not have a bearing and so doesn't rotate very well. Although there are plenty of other solutions that don't rotate very well. The duotone with the ceramic bearings does.

Agree, a lot of people don't unhook, hence donkey dicks. Cabrinha has their fireball which eliminates the cloop and by some accounts partially addresses the needs for a rope slider.

The wichard is very compact solution but you are going to bypass the through the quick release front line flagout. This was a major advance in my opinion.

I think it is a testimony to the wichard that it took years for the kiteboarding industry to match its reliability under load.

As for one handed operation, it is only an issue when there is a load in which case you are grasping the line above the release with one hand and engaging the QR with the other. So functionally there is no difference between the ozone click and wichard.

I'm glad you like it. I don't think it is for everyone. I used it for a number of years.

I think the duotone rope slider with the iron heart quick release and the ozone click n would be the superior solution for a rope slider, but that doesn't exist.
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Re: easily reset chickenloops

Postby downunder » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:05 pm

The logic is that all marketing behind the "superior" release will trick people in thinking that they are safe.

That is shallow thinking. It is a common occurrence lately with a weekend warriors. Hope the future proves me wrong.

If you guys had to use it in 2001, well, it did come back. Big times. No one wants to talk about it simply coz scared of being bullied or called names. It is simple as that.

Yes, normal chicken loop makes no sense at all with a sliding rope, unless one has extra long hands.
Your slider has a hook? Well the OP hasn't got one as I understand, hence the reason why looking for one hand reset.

You guys should well know how difficult is to reset a sliding rope release. It's bloody hard, lets not pretend otherwise.

I never claimed that its for everyone. Never claimed that it does not release under load or without either.

Incidentally, right handed people will probably use right hand to release anyway. Next time when catching something, make a note of used hand.

Not having a safety line, mentioned that a number of times. A luxury of my local.

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Re: easily reset chickenloops

Postby james » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:10 pm

I do love how newbies are revisiting shit from the past and claiming it as super ( with the not for everyone caveat)

Yes we all had Wichard releases back then, yes they were great yes they solved a problem we all thought we had.

Thankfully things move on, interestingly wichard never did, why would they it’s a shackle for boat rigging and perfect for its purpose.

Use it, good on you but stop preaching that it’s safe in all situations the same shit applies now as it did back then
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Re: easily reset chickenloops

Postby jumptheshark » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:57 pm

Deep thoughts:

Try reloading a wichard release with one hand if there is any reasonable pull in the line. It's a pretty small smooth little piece to hold onto and because the bail is rigid, you have only about an inch tolerance when trying to hold it stationary to get it snapped shut around something. It's just not great when things get windy, waves and cold. The larger and easer to grasp body of a chicken loop has long been a better option for most kiters.

Hunting for the release is an issue when time is of the essence. The larger more easily located push release of the average chicken loop was the major advantage that retired most of the shackles to a drawer. You can modify the pull sting to a small barbell or short rope with ball trigger that improves finding and firing, but then its susceptible to release with incidental contacts.

Only half the ring opens and the hinge is an enlargement point. If it is shackled to the the wrong size SS ring or simply a rope, it can hang up on the hinge when opened. I remember laughing about that warning some ten years, but it happened at least twice in the short time I used it.


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