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Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

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elguapo
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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby elguapo » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:40 pm


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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby iriejohn » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:31 pm

My advice would be to either:

1. Get medical documentation confirming the infections you and your friends have suffered from and their likely source(s), and thereafter go to see a lawyer.

or

2. Walk away.

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby Matteo V » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:00 pm

First off, stop kitesurfing. Or at least stop kitesurfing there. If it has a potential to make you sick, then continuing to enter the water there is taking a risk. BUT IF IT HAS ALREADY MADE YOU SICK - DON'T GO BACK!!! It is no longer a risk, but rather an immediate detriment to your health.


Second, yes you could sue the county for their negligence. But have you considered the effect that would have??? Do you know where the money will come from if you win a settlement??? Do you know how the county will likely view kiteboarders if you do win that settlement??? Do you know who the Judges and county defense attorneys are friends with??? If you have a jury trial, do you know where the jury will be selected from???

Let me give you the answers:

1. First off, the headline could read like this: "Kiteboarder wins half million dollar lawsuit for infection linked to wastewater treatment and forces county to construct 200million dollar wastewater treatment plant with new bond issue". While you may get some cheers from some so called environmentalists at first, they will not think so kindly of you once they realize that this is going to greatly increase their property taxes or utility bills.

2. Kiteboarders, who have free access now, will find themselves facing fees or registration as the locals are the only ones who have any say in passing those ordinances. And given the increase in their property taxes/utility bills, they will look to the root cause for that for compensation.

3. The political and judicial are tighter than anyone realizes at the local level. So when this case is won by you, all the politicians who get a bad reputation from it, will definitely consider kiters with contempt. Bans or regulations will go into effect and protests will fall on deaf ears.

4. There will be lots of locals involved in the trial, even without it being a jury trial. Word of mouth will spread and even the locals will begin to consider kiters with contempt.


So suing someone for negligence should always be last resort. If you want things to change, exhaust all efforts to change them before you resort to legal action. And as far as legal advice.......you do realize that lawyers bill by the hour, so what do you thing they will tell you???

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby FLandOBX » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:18 pm

Two principles of US law that you should consider:

"Sovereign immunity" protects most federal, state and local governments from lawsuits for monetary damages. You would be more successful if there is a private entity defendant (e.g., private contractor operating the wastewater facility).

"Assumption of risk" is a defense to tort actions for damages. It essentially says the injured party knew the risks of his/her action in advance, and assumed responsibility for the risks by undertaking the action any way. You'd have to explain why you shouldn't be held accountable for your choice to kite in water that you and others knew was contaminated.

My advice would be to work with your elected officials to try to clean up the water so you and others can enjoy it without problems in the future.

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby edt » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:26 pm

there's raw sewage being dumped everywhere in the world you might be surprised if you went out and tested your local launch. As for the legality of dumping yes it's legal. If the water flow is above a certain amount, everyone is allowed to legally dump raw sewage, and each municipality gets to set its own limits. Try not to drink too much of it that's my advice. As for kiting elsewhere, if you find a place without a warning sign, chances are it's merely not tested. I'm not sure why you need a lawyer. You trying to sue city hall? Good luck with that.


"My advice would be to work with your elected officials to try to clean up the water so you and others can enjoy it without problems in the future."

I don't like working just with elected officials only one on one yeah do that but also organize. We have had good luck locally working on cleaning up the Clinton river by just getting as many people as possible involved, facebook posts, meetings, advertising, and then when we go to city hall there's a hundred people instead of just me. That's when they listen. If they think they are gotta get voted out because they aren't working to clean up the river, that's when it matters to them. Cleaning up the rivers is a national and world problem that isn't going to go away soon.

This is probably the only issue that we can make peace with birders and present a united front. The hardest part about cleaning up the rivers is that they span so many cities and you have to work on petitioning every single one of them to clean it up.

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby Da Yoda » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:29 pm

kitegirls wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:37 am
Myself as well as several kiter friends of mine have gotten a long list of infections and disease from kiting in the water at Kanaha. Myself as well as a good friend who owns a local kiting school have nearly died from infections. I am wondering if anyone here is a lawyer and possibly knows about the specifics on how/if a case like this has any ground? The water here is tested for bacteria and fails EPA standards nearly every test. Everyone seems to know that the local wastewater treatment plant (injection well plant) that is at the end of the beach is obsolete and was built a half-century ago to handle a local population and tourist flow much less of that which it is today. Thanks for any info.
Contact the Surfrider Foundation and see if they can help! That's their Mission...
https://www.surfrider.org/mission
https://www.surfrider.org/initiatives/clean-water
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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby elguapo » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:38 pm

Da Yoda wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:29 pm
kitegirls wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:37 am
Myself as well as several kiter friends of mine have gotten a long list of infections and disease from kiting in the water at Kanaha. Myself as well as a good friend who owns a local kiting school have nearly died from infections. I am wondering if anyone here is a lawyer and possibly knows about the specifics on how/if a case like this has any ground? The water here is tested for bacteria and fails EPA standards nearly every test. Everyone seems to know that the local wastewater treatment plant (injection well plant) that is at the end of the beach is obsolete and was built a half-century ago to handle a local population and tourist flow much less of that which it is today. Thanks for any info.
Contact the Surfrider Foundation and see if they can help! That's their Mission...
https://www.surfrider.org/mission
https://www.surfrider.org/initiatives/clean-water

https://www.surfrider.org/campaigns/sto ... tion-wells

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby John Doe » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:18 am

I would go up to Old Man's & ask who knows Hawaiian Brian. I know Kevin Collins knows him & almost everyone knows Kevin so with a few conversations you should find him. He is an attorney that kites & lives on Maui, but, I believe he is a disability attorney. Nevertheless I kited with him several times, talked story with him several times & he is a real nice friendly guy. He would probably help, or point you in the right direction to get you started.

Or you could reach out to Steve Sadler at the Maui Kiteboarding Association. Everyone knows him as well. Sure he can be of help as he is also a super nice guy that has a lot of really great ideas.

Best of luck. Let us know how it goes:)

Aloha,
JD
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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby John Doe » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:23 am

FLandOBX wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:18 pm
Two principles of US law that you should consider:

"Sovereign immunity" protects most federal, state and local governments from lawsuits for monetary damages. You would be more successful if there is a private entity defendant (e.g., private contractor operating the wastewater facility).

"Assumption of risk" is a defense to tort actions for damages. It essentially says the injured party knew the risks of his/her action in advance, and assumed responsibility for the risks by undertaking the action any way. You'd have to explain why you shouldn't be held accountable for your choice to kite in water that you and others knew was contaminated.

My advice would be to work with your elected officials to try to clean up the water so you and others can enjoy it without problems in the future.
One principal you & any other critics should consider....aloha aina. Hawaiian culture supersedes U.S law in the court of public opinion in Hawaii. It's really that simple.

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby Adventure Logs » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:13 am

John Doe wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:23 am

One principal you & any other critics should consider....aloha aina. Hawaiian culture supersedes U.S law in the court of public opinion in Hawaii. It's really that simple.
Why does the South Park episode where Butters goes to Hawaii to become a man come to mind after this comment???


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