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Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

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FLandOBX
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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby FLandOBX » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:13 pm

John Doe wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:23 am
FLandOBX wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:18 pm
Two principles of US law that you should consider:

"Sovereign immunity" protects most federal, state and local governments from lawsuits for monetary damages. You would be more successful if there is a private entity defendant (e.g., private contractor operating the wastewater facility).

"Assumption of risk" is a defense to tort actions for damages. It essentially says the injured party knew the risks of his/her action in advance, and assumed responsibility for the risks by undertaking the action any way. You'd have to explain why you shouldn't be held accountable for your choice to kite in water that you and others knew was contaminated.

My advice would be to work with your elected officials to try to clean up the water so you and others can enjoy it without problems in the future.
One principal you & any other critics should consider....aloha aina. Hawaiian culture supersedes U.S law in the court of public opinion in Hawaii. It's really that simple.
Doe, you misread my post if you think I'm a "critic". I simply responded to the OP's question with knowledge that I have. I'm not sure from your comment whether you think suing the locality is a good idea or not but, as I've said, I favor working to improve water quality for future users. Aloha.

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby NYKiter » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:07 pm

If folks are getting sick your community is entitled to a federal public health risk assessment from the ATSDR.

Organize and contact them.

https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/faq.html

Many states have antiquated WWTTPs that cant handle their populations.

Thats why we live in a democracy.....you pay for it.
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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby kitegirls » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:01 am

NYKiter wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:07 pm
If folks are getting sick your community is entitled to a federal public health risk assessment from the ATSDR.

Organize and contact them.

https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/faq.html

Many states have antiquated WWTTPs that cant handle their populations.

Thats why we live in a democracy.....you pay for it.
Wow, a helpful comment. I will contact them first thing in the morning. Much mahalos!

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby kitegirls » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:04 am

John Doe wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:18 am
I would go up to Old Man's & ask who knows Hawaiian Brian. I know Kevin Collins knows him & almost everyone knows Kevin so with a few conversations you should find him. He is an attorney that kites & lives on Maui, but, I believe he is a disability attorney. Nevertheless I kited with him several times, talked story with him several times & he is a real nice friendly guy. He would probably help, or point you in the right direction to get you started.

Or you could reach out to Steve Sadler at the Maui Kiteboarding Association. Everyone knows him as well. Sure he can be of help as he is also a super nice guy that has a lot of really great ideas.

Best of luck. Let us know how it goes:)

Aloha,
JD
I will look for all three people. Mahalos

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby kitegirls » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:06 am

elguapo wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:38 pm
Da Yoda wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:29 pm
kitegirls wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:37 am
Myself as well as several kiter friends of mine have gotten a long list of infections and disease from kiting in the water at Kanaha. Myself as well as a good friend who owns a local kiting school have nearly died from infections. I am wondering if anyone here is a lawyer and possibly knows about the specifics on how/if a case like this has any ground? The water here is tested for bacteria and fails EPA standards nearly every test. Everyone seems to know that the local wastewater treatment plant (injection well plant) that is at the end of the beach is obsolete and was built a half-century ago to handle a local population and tourist flow much less of that which it is today. Thanks for any info.
Contact the Surfrider Foundation and see if they can help! That's their Mission...
https://www.surfrider.org/mission
https://www.surfrider.org/initiatives/clean-water

https://www.surfrider.org/campaigns/sto ... tion-wells
Ive sent my local charter of Surfrider Foundation 5 or 10 emails about this subject over the past 18 months and have never received a single reply.

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby kitegirls » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:07 am

Da Yoda wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:29 pm
kitegirls wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:37 am
Myself as well as several kiter friends of mine have gotten a long list of infections and disease from kiting in the water at Kanaha. Myself as well as a good friend who owns a local kiting school have nearly died from infections. I am wondering if anyone here is a lawyer and possibly knows about the specifics on how/if a case like this has any ground? The water here is tested for bacteria and fails EPA standards nearly every test. Everyone seems to know that the local wastewater treatment plant (injection well plant) that is at the end of the beach is obsolete and was built a half-century ago to handle a local population and tourist flow much less of that which it is today. Thanks for any info.
Contact the Surfrider Foundation and see if they can help! That's their Mission...
https://www.surfrider.org/mission
https://www.surfrider.org/initiatives/clean-water
I have sent my local Surfrider chapter 5 or 10 emails over the past 18 months and have never received a single reply.

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby pmaggie » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:43 am

I'm italian, I've been four times in Maui but I don't know your local regulations. Here in Italy, raising a stink about water quality would be a very very risky move. Normally, if you (being perfectly right!) act this way, the local authorities reaction is " from now, the beach is closed to swimming and any other water activity". That is an absolute stupidity but it is exactly what is going to happen if someone try to raise the water pollution problem...

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby kitegirls » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:25 pm

pmaggie wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:43 am
I'm italian, I've been four times in Maui but I don't know your local regulations. Here in Italy, raising a stink about water quality would be a very very risky move. Normally, if you (being perfectly right!) act this way, the local authorities reaction is " from now, the beach is closed to swimming and any other water activity". That is an absolute stupidity but it is exactly what is going to happen if someone try to raise the water pollution problem...
So you are saying that in your country that the government corporation (the people which force you to pay them taxes / the people which you pay their salary and for their children's schooling and pay for their homes -basically the people who work for you) You allow these same people to control and endanger your lives, health, safety while you cower in a corner allowing them to pollute your environment which you pay taxes to keep clean and safe out of fear of even more repression? Wow, how do you feel about rape, drunk driving and domestic violence? Better not say anything about these things either else you may offend someone. The government may reinstate prohibition and an after-dark curfew... Maybe its time to bring back the Star of David on our apparel, just so that They know...

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby FLandOBX » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:07 pm

Interesting reaction, kitegirls. I think you missed pmaggie's point.

If a member of the public identifies a significant health risk to a government entity having jurisdiction over the problem, the first reaction will be to shut down the affected area to the public. Pmaggie simply said that, once the government officials have formal notice of the problem, they really have no choice but to close the area to protect the public. If they didn't, they would open themselves up to potential liability.

It works this way everywhere. Even in your state where "Hawaiian culture supersedes U.S law in the court of public opinion." :roll: And it has nothing whatsoever to do with rape and domestic violence. :wink:

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Re: Legal Question ! Any Lawyers on Here?

Postby kitegirls » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:33 pm

FLandOBX wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:07 pm
Interesting reaction, kitegirls. I think you missed pmaggie's point.

If a member of the public identifies a significant health risk to a government entity having jurisdiction over the problem, the first reaction will be to shut down the affected area to the public. Pmaggie simply said that, once the government officials have formal notice of the problem, they really have no choice but to close the area to protect the public. If they didn't, they would open themselves up to potential liability.

It works this way everywhere. Even in your state where "Hawaiian culture supersedes U.S law in the court of public opinion." :roll: And it has nothing whatsoever to do with rape and domestic violence. :wink:
So if this were true why have they not shut down the injection wells and built a new wastewater treatment facility or at least petitioned the Corporation of Maui for the funding to do so? The EPA, The Hawaii Wildlife Fund, the Sierra Club Maui, the Surfrider Foundation, and the West Maui Preservation Association have all identified that the injection wells are overloaded, obsolete and gross polluters. There have been millions of dollars in fines levied and it has been in court for nearly a decade with the Corporation appealing again and again. So why after all of this and all of these years have they not shut down the beaches nor build new sewage plants? You seem to be an authority on how all of this works.

And realistically maybe closure of the beach parks is what we need to light a fire under the asses of the local Maui Syndicate, um I mean gubment. The closure of the beach parks that tested high for live human fecal matter this week alone would prevent one million people from going to the beach in March and April alone. If one million people could no go to the polluted beaches in Kahului and Kihei (which are the two that tested positive for live human fecal matter) than one million people would be extremely upset. Not to mention the revenue loss. There are hundreds of millions of dollars spent per year in Maui County from windsurfers, kiters and visitors that stay on the South Shore in vacation rentals, hotels and condos across from the Kamaole beaches and eat at the restaurants here. The surf schools and surfboard rentals at Cove Park (where the South Shore faulty injection well pumps out) pay hundreds of thousands per year in permit fees and taxes. They employ a hundred people and teach tens of thousands of surf lessons per year. All of this would be shut down. One-million outraged people who were told that they couldn't use their favorite beaches until the sewage issue was corrected could and would spark change. So I say close 'em up. Im all in. I say do whatever need be done to eliminate massive amounts of deadly toxic matter from the oceans.


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