No need for a release system/safety?

[andylc]

There’s no excuse not to have a leash.

[Matteo V]

All of your options give the pass out and drown option

I do not consider that an "option". It is a chance in any option. It is also simply what happens when you loose consciousness in the break. You can mitigate the risk with say, a helmet, but never completely eliminate it. Again please don't think of it as an option, but rather a possible unfortunate outcome of any option you choose. But passing out, drowning , or hypothermia (then drowning) is more likely with #1 and #2.

So again how do YOU manage such a feat of pain suppression, we all want to know?

It is not a feat. Again it is always a possibility, with very little anyone can do in the form of training to avoid. Do what you can to limit that possibility if you value your life.

[foilholio]

There’s no excuse not to have a leash.

there is: a complete egoistic person who gives a f*** about anyone else in this world

And those people should take up another sport where they can only endanger themselves with whatever they do.

I met such people...many years ago in Egypt...when it was a hot topic about QR and kite leashes....that Russian guy said, that he doesn't need a kite leash. I asked what about the other people who get killed by his kite when it flies away...his reply: "not my problem, as long as I am fine".

[james]

Hey Matteo here is my rebuttal

Vid.

It's 2019 and this is the "best" release on the market. I am sure Ruben loved the fact he could easy reload after he broke that leg, surely saved some beach goers. You want to endanger beach goers just use any of the many shit releases that can do like that.

Perfect example! Now move Ruben and the kite about a half a kite line length upwind of those "beach goers" (I would call them surfers). Dick move to try to kite loop up wind of them?....Yes, please everyone avoid that. But if it happens, before the kite and lines drift over the surfers, reload, RELAUNCH and drag away. Broken leg or not.

And if my leg is broken (compound fracture chumin for sharks, or not), I am 100% POSITIVE I want to reload and drag with the kite in the air, back to shore - as opposed to swimming to the kite as it gets wrecked by the next set and I can't use it anyway to self rescue in with. (hint: body dragging is way faster).

I am still on the side that a reliably re-loadable safety is necessary for safety in kitesurfing. And you made the argument for me with the vid.

So what happened with the bold bit? Not passing out just being a straight up hero dragging through the pain.

Seems a little contradictory no?

[Matteo V]

So what happened with the bold bit? Not passing out just being a straight up hero dragging through the pain.

Seems a little contradictory no?

When did I mention or even allude to being a "hero"? Is this maybe a language barrier?

Saving your own butt does not make one a hero. Nor does lucking out by not losing consciousness make you a hero. I laid out reasonable actions if you do stay conscious.

I also stated the obvious that if you lose consciousness in the break, you die.

And let me apologize if the reason you seem so angered is that you have lost someone close, or have lost consciousness yourself and somehow survived (accident on land or someone got to you very quickly on the water). Either experience does not mean you are weak.

[foilholio]

Unlike sjw/npc's, I don't debate individuals. I debate ideas.

Sjw&npc certainly debate ideas,it is just they misrepresent them like you are. Again understand and represent a persons position accurately if you want an honest debate. You start a thread quoting me titled "No need for a release system/safety?", which is a position I have never had. It arose discussing reassembly of the release, among other things. You have repeatably from my small reading of your posts misrepresented people, so much so as to do so to the opposite of what they said. This is blatant trolling. It may be your tactic but I don't agree with it.

There’s no excuse not to have a leash.

there is: a complete egoistic person who gives a f*** about anyone else in this world

And those people should take up another sport where they can only endanger themselves with whatever they do.

I met such people...many years ago in Egypt...when it was a hot topic about QR and kite leashes....that Russian guy said, that he doesn't need a kite leash. I asked what about the other people who get killed by his kite when it flies away...his reply: "not my problem, as long as I am fine".

There is a place and a time to not use a leash or release kites, waves is one but never to endanger other people. Me personally I always have a leash as it is just too risky for others and my gear not to, but I have released kites 100's of times. I have never hurt or hit any one with a kite, attached or detached. The opposite has happened to me, had kites hit me , my kite, my lines. There is some lovely people out there.

[downunder]

There’s no excuse not to have a leash.

there is: a complete egoistic person who gives a f*** about anyone else in this world

And those people should take up another sport where they can only endanger themselves with whatever they do.

I met such people...many years ago in Egypt...when it was a hot topic about QR and kite leashes....that Russian guy said, that he doesn't need a kite leash. I asked what about the other people who get killed by his kite when it flies away...his reply: "not my problem, as long as I am fine".

Ummm,

racers?

Also, you're forgetting a suicide mode. Not having a safety at all in my books. It's the hand extension but nothing else.

So, no, you are mistaken. A lot of people, including myself, run only and nothing but suicide. And, I've had a good share of broken bones, with some impossible to fly the kite or reset the release - try breaking a collar bone.

I challenge anyone with breaking a collar bone and fiddle with a kite. And that is a minor break as opposed to tibia or a neck.

There is a loooong discussion, actually years long, about 'safety' leashes on a SB. People with short leash? They never unhook so why would they impose theirs standards to others, and vice versa?

Horses for courses...

[downunder]

Given that there are other people on the planet, and beaches and water are desirable for recreation for the vast majority of them, there will be beach goers at potentially every location you can kite at.

This guy never visited Australia.

Today, 3 foilers, ZERO beach goers on 2km stretch. Its Easter Saturday evening, BBQ and footy for most.

No, no need for quick reload on many occasions/locations. To be fair, fixed rope could be fine.
Use a knife when really needed. One might use a knife anyway in some circumstances. Or not, with fatal consequences.
Somehow we do not practice using a knife, do we. However, it might save your or someone's else's life.

No need for body armor as well, but we all know Matty is big on that

A quick release is a safety feature for the rider. A knife is not a quick release.

Body armor, helmets are the same a safety feature for the rider.

And it doesn't matter how deserted your beach is.

A single line depower is a safety feature for safety of other people. And I would agree, that the safest thing if you have the room and the money is to let go of the kite completely and not have to deal with releasing the leash.

Well,

actually I would argue that it is important. Half of this discussion is about the safety of others. Which others on deserted beaches?

You are not riding a suicide? I posted a pic taken from the vid Kevin L. riding suicide. Which makes the statement about single line safety obsolete and irrelevant.

~~~~~~~

People are placing a lot of fate in a quick release. People build their quick releases as we write this, which only means they ARE taking the risk in a different way than others for good or worse. Particularly if 99.9% never practise releasing a kite.

I can tell, the new Ozone QR needs more than a few kg of force to reset. The strength of person is important here. A small kid would find it hard, maybe even a tiny female rider. It would not be my choice to use this release.

Guys, have a good look inside this release and judge for yourself if something can get stucked and prevent functioning. It has a LOT of space inside.

Good luck.

[james]

So what happened with the bold bit? Not passing out just being a straight up hero dragging through the pain.

Seems a little contradictory no?

When did I mention or even allude to being a "hero"? Is this maybe a language barrier?

Saving your own butt does not make one a hero. Nor does lucking out by not losing consciousness make you a hero. I laid out reasonable actions if you do stay conscious.

I also stated the obvious that if you lose consciousness in the break, you die.

And let me apologize if the reason you seem so angered is that you have lost someone close, or have lost consciousness yourself and somehow survived (accident on land or someone got to you very quickly on the water). Either experience does not mean you are weak.

There is no anger, just amused at you stating that you would 100% take a course of action that on all 4 of your option you went on to say would result in drowning. Yet now say it’s all down to luck?

So did Ruben get “lucky” or did he signal to the people in the water he was in trouble? Did the guys filming send/call for help?

Something happened that got him safely to shore that didn’t involve him re connecting the QR and dragging back in.

You staying 100% a course of action that you then say will result in drowning if you are unlucky is misleading:inaccurate/ dangerous, I don’t get how you can’t see that?

[Toby]

At a beach with no one around, also no kiters, you can do whatever you want.

Just be reminded, a golden rule is not to go out alone.

In that case: your life, your problem.