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Hey surfers whats the difference betwen swollow tail, V tail and regular?

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plummet
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Hey surfers whats the difference betwen swollow tail, V tail and regular?

Postby plummet » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:31 pm

Hey men what is the advantages and disadvantages of these tail designs all other factors being equal?
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longwhitecloud
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Re: Hey surfers whats the difference betwen swollow tail, V tail and regular?

Postby longwhitecloud » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:58 pm

tail 2 is very wide proportionally, so is tail 4 - in surfing these tails are to get through spots on the wave that are flatter but can get easily out of control in steeper faster bigger waves , especially if in too big sizesfor kiting - they can also sideslip. You can go much smaller with a kite surfboard than with a prone paddle surfboard.

one disadvantage of any tail with a sharper corner is that when they smack you in the face - they bite way more.

the idea of the design of tail 2 is to have a wide tail and because you have one half of teh fish tail - you may be able to bite a bit more - but not that much more - it doesnt make a huge difference compared to narrowing teh atil
width. gimmicky imo

If you lined up all teh tails and they were all in teh same proportion, it wouldnt actually make anything like the difference compared to changes in the width to tail proportions, or hardness/thickness of the rail changes

- because you can ride real small dimensions kiting, it does change the game a bit compared to prone surfboards


in surfing you have fish, possibly a twin fin (less friction / faster, - wide tails for soft waves - get through sections but when it gets steep and fast - out of control

rounded square tails - narrower on pretty much all performance surfboards

pin tails - on guns - very narrow - control at high speed - dont do tight arcing turns so well though


kiteboard surfboards are gimmicky no doubt, usually designed by someone with no real clue about surfboards - marketing a gimmick is easy with kiteboarding punters. Take a trend in surfing and just copy it, not really understanding it.


channels are pretty cool - expensive to do and a pita though which is why no one really like doing them /glassing them.

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Re: Hey surfers whats the difference betwen swollow tail, V tail and regular?

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:24 am

A shaper explained it to me as:
Sharp edge at the tail cuts off rail line, round tail extends the rail.
Swallow tail helps dig in the tail as the water can flow over the split.

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Re: Hey surfers whats the difference betwen swollow tail, V tail and regular?

Postby BWD » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:52 am

About that last point, I want to see pictures/video of a swallowtail in a big turn with significant water visibly shooting through the crack and over the deck of the outside/upper tip. Have I been missing out?
I love round tails and squash tails...

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Re: Hey surfers whats the difference betwen swollow tail, V tail and regular?

Postby longwhitecloud » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:14 am

Many shapers have no clue whatsoever.... many cannot even ride the boards they shape... never could. As for advice in a surf shop - you get the worst advice ever... it is a sales pitch..

You really have to find out for yourself by riding many different boards in different conditions to understand the extent of the bull$hit spewed from "experts" mouths in this area.

Having surfed and kited the naki, one issue i reckon with kiting is going too fast without being in control... sometimes need a board that lets you stay in control... kills speed even.

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Re: Hey surfers whats the difference betwen swollow tail, V tail and regular?

Postby iriejohn » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:11 am

longwhitecloud wrote:... the extent of the bull$hit spewed from "experts" mouths
Does this include "experts" like you (judging by your below posts) or are you somehow exempt? Just asking for clarification, OK?
longwhitecloud wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:58 pm
tail 2 is very wide proportionally, so is tail 4 - in surfing these tails are to get through spots on the wave that are flatter but can get easily out of control in steeper faster bigger waves , especially if in too big sizesfor kiting - they can also sideslip. You can go much smaller with a kite surfboard than with a prone paddle surfboard.

one disadvantage of any tail with a sharper corner is that when they smack you in the face - they bite way more.

the idea of the design of tail 2 is to have a wide tail and because you have one half of teh fish tail - you may be able to bite a bit more - but not that much more - it doesnt make a huge difference compared to narrowing teh atil
width. gimmicky imo

If you lined up all teh tails and they were all in teh same proportion, it wouldnt actually make anything like the difference compared to changes in the width to tail proportions, or hardness/thickness of the rail changes

- because you can ride real small dimensions kiting, it does change the game a bit compared to prone surfboards


in surfing you have fish, possibly a twin fin (less friction / faster, - wide tails for soft waves - get through sections but when it gets steep and fast - out of control

rounded square tails - narrower on pretty much all performance surfboards

pin tails - on guns - very narrow - control at high speed - dont do tight arcing turns so well though


kiteboard surfboards are gimmicky no doubt, usually designed by someone with no real clue about surfboards - marketing a gimmick is easy with kiteboarding punters. Take a trend in surfing and just copy it, not really understanding it.


channels are pretty cool - expensive to do and a pita though which is why no one really like doing them /glassing them.

longwhitecloud wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:14 am
Many shapers have no clue whatsoever.... many cannot even ride the boards they shape... never could. As for advice in a surf shop - you get the worst advice ever... it is a sales pitch..

You really have to find out for yourself by riding many different boards in different conditions to understand the extent of the bull$hit spewed from "experts" mouths in this area.

Having surfed and kited the naki, one issue i reckon with kiting is going too fast without being in control... sometimes need a board that lets you stay in control... kills speed even.

longwhitecloud
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Re: Hey surfers whats the difference betwen swollow tail, V tail and regular?

Postby longwhitecloud » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:19 am

iriejohn wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:11 am
longwhitecloud wrote:... the extent of the bull$hit spewed from "experts" mouths
Does this include "experts" like you (judging by your below posts) or are you somehow exempt? Just asking for clarification, OK?
longwhitecloud wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:58 pm
tail 2 is very wide proportionally, so is tail 4 - in surfing these tails are to get through spots on the wave that are flatter but can get easily out of control in steeper faster bigger waves , especially if in too big sizesfor kiting - they can also sideslip. You can go much smaller with a kite surfboard than with a prone paddle surfboard.

one disadvantage of any tail with a sharper corner is that when they smack you in the face - they bite way more.

the idea of the design of tail 2 is to have a wide tail and because you have one half of teh fish tail - you may be able to bite a bit more - but not that much more - it doesnt make a huge difference compared to narrowing teh atil
width. gimmicky imo

If you lined up all teh tails and they were all in teh same proportion, it wouldnt actually make anything like the difference compared to changes in the width to tail proportions, or hardness/thickness of the rail changes

- because you can ride real small dimensions kiting, it does change the game a bit compared to prone surfboards


in surfing you have fish, possibly a twin fin (less friction / faster, - wide tails for soft waves - get through sections but when it gets steep and fast - out of control

rounded square tails - narrower on pretty much all performance surfboards

pin tails - on guns - very narrow - control at high speed - dont do tight arcing turns so well though


kiteboard surfboards are gimmicky no doubt, usually designed by someone with no real clue about surfboards - marketing a gimmick is easy with kiteboarding punters. Take a trend in surfing and just copy it, not really understanding it.


channels are pretty cool - expensive to do and a pita though which is why no one really like doing them /glassing them.

longwhitecloud wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:14 am
Many shapers have no clue whatsoever.... many cannot even ride the boards they shape... never could. As for advice in a surf shop - you get the worst advice ever... it is a sales pitch..

You really have to find out for yourself by riding many different boards in different conditions to understand the extent of the bull$hit spewed from "experts" mouths in this area.

Having surfed and kited the naki, one issue i reckon with kiting is going too fast without being in control... sometimes need a board that lets you stay in control... kills speed even.
I'm just a kook. Don't listen to me. :-0

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Kamikuza
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Re: Hey surfers whats the difference betwen swollow tail, V tail and regular?

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:59 am

BWD wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:52 am
About that last point, I want to see pictures/video of a swallowtail in a big turn with significant water visibly shooting through the crack and over the deck of the outside/upper tip. Have I been missing out?
I love round tails and squash tails...
Repeating what I heard, sorry -- no facts :D I've yet to hear anything that makes any sense about swallow tails...or rather, more sense than that. I know he said a bunch of stuff, but that's all that stuck. Probably misremembered it too :lol: he might have said something about keeping a longer, straighter rail and having less effective width in the tail, I dimly remember something about that. Dammit, I know this would happen.

He also said that boards are very individualistic -- what works for you, here, on this day, won't work if you change any of the variables.

Boards I like or adapt to quickly tend to have swallow tails ... and my first directional board had one. I'm sure that's coincidental :o

I like the shape of the Vanguard, so I'd probably go for that just on visual. I actually hate old school swallow tails shape :lol:

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Re: Hey surfers whats the difference betwen swollow tail, V tail and regular?

Postby kjorn » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:27 pm

Big wave guns are narrow tails, your foot is quite a long way forward of the tail.

Small mushy wave boards are wider and are square tail or swallow tail to loosen them up. Helps move the rear of the board closer to your back foot without the board sinking.

Small (6-7 foot) pin tails are old school carving boards.

I can't ride short board with round tails, they feel weird. You need a lot of back foot pressure to get them to move. Swallow tails or square are my preferred ride in small boards. Once the surf gets big and hollow then it's a different matter, narrow board, pin tail, lots of control.

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Re: Hey surfers whats the difference betwen swollow tail, V tail and regular?

Postby knotwindy » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:17 pm

The shaper I asked said there are really only 2 tail shapes, pin and square. Others are just minor changes that make no difference other than looks. Pin holds long fast turns better, square shortens the edge line and makes a more pivotal turn so quicker but not as good at speed. And he said fin shape, size & placement will far override the tail shape every time.
Not sure about this but it makes sense to me.


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