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LEI power comparison with closed cell foil.

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knotwindy
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Re: LEI power comparison with closed cell foil.

Postby knotwindy » Sat May 04, 2019 3:28 pm

I can’t believe I’m doing this, defending pumpy but
He is not an idiot, he a troll and a very good one, been doing it for a long time and is spectacularly consistent

Not sure what you call a person who gets upset/argues with a troll?
& yes, I see the irony here :lol:
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Re: LEI power comparison with closed cell foil.

Postby Matteo V » Sat May 04, 2019 4:15 pm

knotwindy wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:28 pm
I can’t believe I’m doing this, defending pumpy but
He is not an idiot, he a troll and a very good one, been doing it for a long time and is spectacularly consistent

Yup, I will concede that your take on him is more accurate than mine.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: LEI power comparison with closed cell foil.

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat May 04, 2019 7:30 pm

Rannoch66 wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 10:58 am
Thanks so much for all the cool feedback! Yes the wind stability on the beach is something I hadn't really considered. I have only kited in the mountains and gusty is the normal for me! So if it's 22 knots outside, I am expecting gusts at around 40. I know foil or LEI is kind of a preference thing, but for anyone who has ridden both, what do you think would be the best transition for someone like me, who is used to riding foils but new to the water? Should I go LEI just to help with the learning curve on water? Or stick to foils?
Thanks so much for the great feedback everyone :)

I would go with a LEI for learning on and in the water, relaunch will be needed also, when new on the water.

The foil kites (I am talking about high aspect performance foil kites only) will have a higher wind range, not in doubt, and fly so far forward that it can handle loads of wind without you getting lofted on the beach.
But they are extremely difficult to handle on the water, as their power when flown or ridden fast is insane, but means you get out of control really fast, they turn like dogs, and can collapse, and if you dont relaunch fast, you are in for a troublesome packdown and swim.

For the same reason I choose LEI kites for everything (jumping/waveboards/foilboards) but the lightest wind, foling in 5 to 7 knots, where you can push the low end further with foil kites.

You will be able to fly a LEI instantly, super easy given your foil kite experience :thumb:

8) Peter
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Rannoch66
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Re: LEI power comparison with closed cell foil.

Postby Rannoch66 » Tue May 07, 2019 1:55 pm

If you can handle 22 gusting 40 on a closed cell foil - ride it. When you get a chance to demo a small LEI - you should try it too
Well like i said, if it was 22 outside and i was expecting gusts at 40, I just wouldn't be out! That's I think what had me so surprised at the beach... to see so many people kiting in 22 knots and nobody having control issues. But from what it sounds like, 18-22 is kind of normal for using a 10m LEI?

The foils I ride are all open cell foils, so even more unpredictable to manage in gusty winds. I just know if I pulled out my Montana 8m in 22 knots, it would be suicide here in the mountains due to the gusty conditions and physical obstacles. I guess with the stability of the wind on the beach and open space it might be doable (obviously I wouldn't kitesurf with an open cell foil though).

As many have pointed out, the area plays a large role, how much available space there is to take added risks! I am just putting my experience with kiting into a beach scenario, and it sounds like it's two completely different animals.
But thanks so much for all the feedback everyone! MUCH appreciated :) I'll definitely try LEI out :)
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Re: LEI power comparison with closed cell foil.

Postby Pump me up » Tue May 07, 2019 11:30 pm

Rannoch66 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:55 pm
But thanks so much for all the feedback everyone! MUCH appreciated :) I'll definitely try LEI out :)
You're welcome Rannoch. Feel free to ask more questions. But please keep in mind that ram air kites ("foil kites") are aerodynamically inferior compared to inflatables; the market share is 97% to 3% in favour of inflatables, ram airs have never won or featured near the top of relevant competitions (freestyle, big air, etc), and ram airs are less safe.

:pump:
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Bille
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Re: LEI power comparison with closed cell foil.

Postby Bille » Wed May 08, 2019 1:46 am

Pump me up wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 11:30 pm
Rannoch66 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:55 pm
...
I'll definitely try LEI out :)
You're welcome Rannoch. Feel free to ask more questions. But please keep in mind that ram air kites ("foil kites") are aerodynamically inferior compared to inflatables;
...


:pump:
Hold ON Cowboy !!

PMU is pimping Ya Duster ; LEI's are Great , (but so are ram-airs).
I don't mind a Good joke ; but PMU is taking this WAY too far !!

You NEED to read this before Ya decide ; that guy , (PMU) rides ram-airs
as much as LEI's . Read this page where Toby busted PMU ; and
the last post by Me , (Bille) got a picture pf PMU riding a ram-air : :lol:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2375153

Bille
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Bille
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Re: LEI power comparison with closed cell foil.

Postby Bille » Fri May 10, 2019 8:26 pm

Don't wanna end this , on a Bad note :

edit : on second thought ...
Last edited by Bille on Mon May 13, 2019 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LEI power comparison with closed cell foil.

Postby Pump me up » Sun May 12, 2019 11:18 pm

Rannoch66 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:55 pm
But thanks so much for all the feedback everyone! MUCH appreciated :) I'll definitely try LEI out :)
You're welcome Rannoch :thumb:
On top of the aforementioned, one of the world’s most respected kite designers and erstwhile designer for FLYSURFER (the world's largest closed-cell ram air kite manufacturer), Ralf Groesel, had this to say about ram airs:
“… it’s the Tube-kite that stands victorious. From a designer’s point-of-view it shines in every aspect; its simplicity in design is the key to controlling its complexity. Tube-kites rule most of the sport-related requirements… Soft-kites have an approximate market share of 4%, meaning that 96% of all kites sold worldwide are Tube-kites. This figure basically validates the success of the concept. Without being too sarcastic, you have to be a believer to think that Soft-kites are the future of the kite market…”
For the full epiphany, please check-out this link: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2400039

It's interesting to note that NO ram airs..... no NOT ONE (!)…. feature anywhere near the top of world rankings in ANY discipline http://www.worldkiteboardingleague.com. Ram airs crashed in Freestyle, Wave, and Speed disciplines.

The same ol’ problems keep recurring: the low-end of large rams is 7-8 knots at best. Ram airs are INFERIOR on downwind legs (collapsing, bow tying, etc). Ram airs really suck in gusty conditions and downwind of obstacles. They are positively lethal in cross-offshore conditions. Relaunch is a NIGHTMARE. Ram airs suffer rapid obsolescence through stretching, bridle deformation, and by being superseded by newer models. Last but not least, SAFETY is a real issue.

Ignore the LIES and exaggerations. Ram airs are grossly inferior compared to inflatables.

Cheers,

Pumpy :pump:

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Re: LEI power comparison with closed cell foil.

Postby cglazier » Mon May 13, 2019 5:12 am

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