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17m lightwind Kite + normal TT or 12m Kite + Door?

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joriws
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Re: 17m lightwind Kite + normal TT or 12m Kite + Door?

Postby joriws » Tue May 07, 2019 8:34 pm

I'd not waste my money on 15-19m LEI based on what I see on my kite locations. They are pigs on LW - LE heavy with does not allow them properly turn when much more balanced and more powerful foil kites can still haul my 110kg ass on water.

On this video I demonstrate how 15m foil outperforms all LEIs on beach that day with around 80kg riders and much will to ride when they saw me riding. They cannot even get kite to turn to zenith due to heavy LE. I loaned Spleene monster door TT from friend as my normal ultimate Flydoor XL TT was at home so I was maintaining ground. With Flydoor my experience is if I can plane without kiteloop to accelerate I can go upwind. If I see that I cannot go upwind anymore I can still ride downwind to beach. I've outrun also 19m Core's and Airush Zeroes. Nitros, Turbines no match like in video. Dynos and Zephyrs - yeah right 'water carpet' what I've seen. Sorry but that the way just is.



Here is some Flydoor-tt enjoyment on water like tacking with backroll hand plants or jumping and touching down upwind from jump take-off etc.. So doors are suitable for some fun in 8kn range. Sure for 8kn prediction I probably wouldn't drive 260km to beach I am using in summer - but if you drove there and wind does not show up to promised level, it is a real session saver.



--

If 12kn wind is common for you - or like storm to my location - I'd go for foilkite but as recreational rider never above 15m in size even for my weight. But it depends a lot on your location and riding style. Usually on 12kn I can start to get going 10m Speed4 lotus kite. But with 15m it is already jumping fun. Foilkite and normal-TT 138x42 - if you normal TT is very rockerish it will take power away from any kite due to drag. But with 12kn you'd go nicely on mediocre TT for LW.

Perhaps today if I were buying a foil kite of 15m size I'd check/demo Soul from Flysurfer. But my quiver today contains Sonic2 15m so no need. You can start also practising foilboarding with that kite on safer lower winds and when you get XP to foil on foil - then you can move any direction. Blasting water on same foilkite or ploughing with small LEI kite.

If Ozone dealer is closer to you (or your heart) perhaps Chrono v3 would be worthwhile to test. North Ace 15m, well it pulls but not refined touch like established foil kite brands have. Spleene X19 - stay away.. Pansh, HQ, Peter Lynn.. No what I've seen and tested myself...

But these are just opinions and probably not suited for you. But for me it allows me to practise kiteboarding.

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Re: 17m lightwind Kite + normal TT or 12m Kite + Door?

Postby grigorib » Tue May 07, 2019 9:24 pm

^^^note another "huge board + 15m"

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Re: 17m lightwind Kite + normal TT or 12m Kite + Door?

Postby bigtone667 » Tue May 07, 2019 9:55 pm

There are lot of factors that go into light wind kiting on a TT or Surfboard. Do you have chop or smooth water? Do you have tidal/current flows? You will come appreciate all those factors with experience.

Light wind kiting....

1. Large foil wing and large foil kite will get you going sub-10knots. High level of skill is required to make this work.

2. Large foil wing and large LEI kite will also get you going sub-10knots. High level of skill is required to make this work.

3. Large door or skim board or fish style surfboard and a large foil kite will get you going around 10knots. You will be working harder than 1 or 2.

4. Large door or skim board or fish style surfboard and a large LEI kite will get you going around 10knots. You will be working harder than 1 or 2 or 3.

I personally think foil kites are a pain in the arse (bridle tangles, keeping air in them, launching them, removing weed from bridles, drying them out). But they are generally the best light wind kites that still pull like a truck. And at 95kg, you need the pull of a truck.

If you want go LEI, buy a 17 or 19 high aspect kite like an Edge. They were designed for racing in light wind and they pull like a truck (better low end than a zephyr).

You want 32m lines. The kite will need to spend more time flying through the power zone to lift and move your 95kg.

Your board must be wide and flat. You do not want rocker.

I am 105kg and I choose my weapons in the following way for 10 to 12 knots.

Is there deep water: yes..... I foil and fly a 13 or 10m strutless kite. You can have enormous fun in 10 knots on a foil.

Is there deep water: no..... door or skimboard and what ever kite I can get to fly and pull me along and get me PLANING. You have to get planing.

I have had lots of fun on an 18m chrono and 50litre fish style surfboard in 10knots, 19m edge and wooden plank in 10 knots, 17m Cloud and Crazyfly Cruiser in 10knots, 15m Rebel and CrazyFly Cruiser/Skimboard in 12knots.

You want a big kite, long flat wide board, minimal chop etc etc

Don't take light wind kiting advice from people below 80kg. They have no idea about consequences of being heavier and getting out of the water to plane.

Good luck.
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Re: 17m lightwind Kite + normal TT or 12m Kite + Door?

Postby dejavu » Wed May 08, 2019 12:21 am

The Cabrinha Contra 15m and 17m are terrific light wind kites. I am 90kgs. I use these with my 160 Flydoor and I am often the only other one out with foilers. I use standard size lines and settings. On the rare occasion my kite won't fly or does fall from the sky it is because the wind is just too light. It can be easily relaunched IF there is enough wind, if not then I head back to the beach. Also, I test that I can stay upwind on the first couple of runs, if not then back to the beach. If I can, then I stay closer to shore than normal, in case the wind drops. With a Ram Air (Foil) kite, I have watched friends struggle to relaunch in light winds also. Once they are in the water for a while they appear very difficult to relaunch.

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deniska
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Re: 17m lightwind Kite + normal TT or 12m Kite + Door?

Postby deniska » Wed May 08, 2019 2:36 am

joriws wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:34 pm
But these are just opinions and probably not suited for you. But for me it allows me to practise kiteboarding.
as you said.. not great for beginners.. completely different power generation and delivery.. then there is handling those bridles, self rescue and the list goes on.. I would not touch foils for the first 4-5 years, especially big ones like 15-21size..
If you can't hotlauch 17-19LEI easy, there is nothing you can do on TT of any size (that sounds like 6kts or so...
You can still try going foil on foil but chances are it will be a swim... :-)

ask me how I know :-)

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Re: 17m lightwind Kite + normal TT or 12m Kite + Door?

Postby joriws » Wed May 08, 2019 8:49 am

deniska wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:36 am
joriws wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:34 pm
But these are just opinions and probably not suited for you. But for me it allows me to practise kiteboarding.
as you said.. not great for beginners.. completely different power generation and delivery.. then there is handling those bridles, self rescue and the list goes on.. I would not touch foils for the first 4-5 years, especially big ones like 15-21size..
What handling and what self rescue and what list? My very first own kite was Speed3 19DLX, second kite was Speed3 12DLX. I've never *handled* bridles except swapped one because I cut it with my snowboard - but sure I've done mixer test & adjustment and mixer & depower line changes for normal wear lines. Also during my 10y career I've only once self rescued because I had to, but I used Sonic1 as a downwind sail to push me faster towards beach in spring cold water. Probably if you go out 1km+ with hydrofoil on 6kn wind you are in danger - but usually TT-rider stays close to beach..

I see much bigger and more frequent problems with LEIs like deathloops, bladder explosions, kites split in half LE first crashing, kites split by our small waves, delaminating valves and sand in you butt crack because you cannot ride.. :)
joriws wrote:But these are just opinions and probably not suited for you.
It means in longer form, sorry not being clear in first post: All answers on this thread are just opinions of someone including mine and most probably not directly suited for you with you location, weather environment, riding style, your mood, cost, support of shop/importer/local kiters/*, 2nd hand market or really anything.

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Re: 17m lightwind Kite + normal TT or 12m Kite + Door?

Postby Kitenuovoman » Wed May 08, 2019 10:06 am

17 tt or surf...or skim...Door its for loser

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Re: 17m lightwind Kite + normal TT or 12m Kite + Door?

Postby Kristan » Wed May 08, 2019 12:38 pm

12m + 170cm door would get you going at 12 knots. I have similar weight and I went that way couple of times. Although, I'd say at 12 knots water becomes quite choppy, which isn't pleasant when it comes to using the door, but still manageable. Going in 10 knots might be possible, but I wouldn't get high hopes on that.

17m + TT is possible too, but you would seriously cap yourself on the high end.

But I'd say, if you wish to go in the winds around 12 knots, with your weight you better get 14m LEI kite and 145-150 board. It would be best of both worlds.

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Re: 17m lightwind Kite + normal TT or 12m Kite + Door?

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri May 10, 2019 5:37 pm

Kristan wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:38 pm
12m + 170cm door would get you going at 12 knots. I have similar weight and I went that way couple of times. Although, I'd say at 12 knots water becomes quite choppy, which isn't pleasant when it comes to using the door, but still manageable. Going in 10 knots might be possible, but I wouldn't get high hopes on that.

17m + TT is possible too, but you would seriously cap yourself on the high end.

But I'd say, if you wish to go in the winds around 12 knots, with your weight you better get 14m LEI kite and 145-150 board. It would be best of both worlds.

True, going 17 m2 on a smaller TT will limit you hugely.

If the wind drops you can not go upwind.
Turns like a pig.
When the wind is right, you can just go upwind, but not much.
If the wind increases, you are toast, nothing is fun with a 17 m2 now.


Having a 12 m2 and a Door means:

You can ride in the same wind.
Turns faster and fun.
You can go better upwind when the wind is right.
If the wind increases you just go even better upwind, and better jumps without feeling overpowered, OR you can get a smaller board and just hop ashore and change to this one - MUCH better and easier/faster than rigging down from a 17 m2, which you will rarely do in real life...

8) Peter

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Re: 17m lightwind Kite + normal TT or 12m Kite + Door?

Postby Tone » Fri May 10, 2019 5:38 pm

15m foil kite and largeish TT, job done.


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