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Jvwesemael wrote: ↑

Wed May 15, 2019 8:01 am

Hi All,

I am really anxious to hear your thoughts on how these kites compare and then especially wave capability vs freeride capabilty. I read on the forum that the Pivot is very powerfull and that is what I read in the NEO as well. Although the NEO is put as a wave specific kite it needs to tailor to the strapless freestyle needs of pro riders as well. So are these kites a real close match, or are there clear differences?

Does the pivot cater the freeride more [more boost and hangtime] and the neo a bit less but better drifting and less powerfull?

Thanks a lot!

Jeroen.

I've ridden both. They are very different kites.

Neo vs Pivot(a comparison with Neo in Freeride setting, light bar pressure. Pivot in Medium bar pressure)

Power Generation -
Neo - More Power at lower moving speeds, More sheet and go, More bottom end at zero speed
Pivot - Less grunt, less sheet and go, more apparent wind speed generation required for speed


Boosting -
I have higher jumps on my Neo, but WAY less glide.
The pivot is like a gentle paper airplane going up and down. Neo goes up than down quite quickly I find, probably by design so the strapless freestyle guys can keep the board to their feet.


Window -
Pivot is far more forward in the window, better upwind as such.
Neo sits deeper and requires more thoughtful edge control when going upwind. The pivot seems to have more top end range and less affected by gusts.

Backstall and drift -
The pivot is significantly more prone to backstall and does not drift nearly as well as the neo. Like surprisingly so. I can't believe how different the kits are here

The Neo is WAY more fun to play around carving and going around on wind waves because how much easier and less work it takes to keep aloft. Its basically keep your mind off the neo and enjoy playing. The pivot is overflown easier and requires more work and thought.


Turning -
Pivot is a tighter, less powerful turn
Neo is a more controlled turn making linear power during the turn

Bar pressure-
Pivots got less

If I were to sum it up, the Pivot is freeride kite, upwind, softer boosting and softer glide on way down kite. I'm surprised how more prone it is to backstall and its less driftability.

I have more fun on the neo, i can do more with it, playing around on waves, going downwind, boosts high, works great strapless.

Specifically to answer some questions -
PIvot- yes its more freeridey. It sits between the neo and the rebel.
The neo for me actually jumps higher, its just more violent tbh. Its not less powerful, it just is different power. Its power is created by sheeting in and out and needs a size down probably. The Neo has WAY more drift and won't bakstall nearly as much. The Pivot creates its own power the faster you go.

CAL, not saying you are wrong in how you experienced this, but your experience on the pivot...was it a demo? Or did you own an older version? If it was an older version Pivot now seems to have moved more towards aggressive jumps...at least when you ride well powered. Do you think familiarity with one kite over another can contribute in your experience of the jumps? Its just that kites that are like what you describe the neo usually do not have aggressive jumps, and certainly that was my experience when I rode older versions...but for me it was just borrowing a buddy's kite and I fully recognize I am more used to the pivot in this respect, and I have not ridden the newer versions. I'm just curious.

tautologies wrote: ↑

Fri May 17, 2019 9:36 pm

CAL, not saying you are wrong in how you experienced this, but your experience on the pivot...was it a demo? Or did you own an older version? If it was an older version Pivot now seems to have moved more towards aggressive jumps...at least when you ride well powered. Do you think familiarity with one kite over another can contribute in your experience of the jumps? Its just that kites that are like what you describe the neo usually do not have aggressive jumps, and certainly that was my experience when I rode older versions...but for me it was just borrowing a buddy's kite and I fully recognize I am more used to the pivot in this respect, and I have not ridden the newer versions. I'm just curious.

Hey no worries. Both kites are 2018 12M kites. The Pivot was a friends and I borrowed it for 5 sessions in 15-20knot winds in the Bay Area: Coyote, 3rd, Alameda and Sherman Island. I borrowed it because of all the rave reviews on Pivots and me jumping more and getting into strapless, I was excited to switch to a quiver of Pivots. After borrowing it, yes it jumps great, is super forgiving in jumping and landings. I did not jump any higher with the Pivot and I'm staying with my Neos.

If all I wanted to do was boost and glide, I'd buy a pivot.
Anything else, I'd go to a Neo. The Neo is more fun since it feels like you can do more with it. On a downwinder, hands down, without question, a Neo.

I'm legitimately surprised and how everyone says how great a pivot drifts vs what I felt. It back stalls way easier and because its much easier to over run the kite going down wind. After having a quiver of (4) different Neos, the Pivot does not drift anywhere near the same and requires work and looping to go downwind where the Neo you can just keep it parked, sheet appropriately, and maybe move it a bit.

bottom line....Neo is a dedicated wave kite, Pivot is not.

@CAL with all due respect but comparing these kites for drift and jumping in 12m sizes is kinda useless. 12m kites will just suck in in these aspects, especially in comparison to 9-8-7 sizes and appropriate windspeeds that go with it. The Pivot 7m will outjump a Neo for sure in 30+ knots on a TT, both in terms of height, hangtime, and easy take-off, and will drift plenty in 22+ knots on a surfboard as well (although indeed not as good as a true dedicated wavekite, but still plenty good to catch some proper waves). I have ridden both in the smaller sizes and own a Pivot 7m.

Strekke wrote: ↑

Sat May 18, 2019 8:59 pm

@CAL with all due respect but comparing these kites for drift and jumping in 12m sizes is kinda useless. 12m kites will just suck in in these aspects, especially in comparison to 9-8-7 sizes and appropriate windspeeds that go with it. The Pivot 7m will outjump a Neo for sure in 30+ knots on a TT, both in terms of height, hangtime, and easy take-off, and will drift plenty in 22+ knots on a surfboard as well (although indeed not as good as a true dedicated wavekite, but still plenty good to catch some proper waves). I have ridden both in the smaller sizes and own a Pivot 7m.

I would recommend buying a 12m Neo, then, if you're in the market, because the 12m Neo is far from useless and sucking. Quite a fun kite. I own 12/10/9/7 Neos. Shoot man, I don't know, I really expected I was going to change out my Neo quiver for Pivots because everyone raves about them but I thought it was just a kite that was better at hangtime and going upwind compared to my Neo. Maybe I'll try his 10M if you're saying the 12M Pivots aren't that great.

Also, today my buddy was on his 12M Pivot, I was on my 10M Neo. We weigh the same. I was upwind and boosting he was not upwind. So I'd also say that i think you can get away with a 10M Neo when someone else is on a 12M pivot. The 10M Neo does have insane Low end.


I think all I learned was that when I want to buy a jump kite, I'd probably buy a Rebel.

matth wrote: ↑

Sat May 18, 2019 7:46 pm

bottom line....Neo is a dedicated wave kite, Pivot is not.

I mean I guess thats what Duotone says in their sales literature, but I really enjoy playing around on it for free riding, downwinders, boosting, etc on my twintip and playing on wind waves on my Firewire Evo.

tautologies wrote: ↑

Wed May 15, 2019 4:58 pm

OP what you describe is how I use my Pivots. Jumping and waves. Not sure if i believe the any kite smokes the pivot in drift as even kites built specifically for it are just marginally better.

I think you'll hear people who has north kites recommended their kites and people who has naish kites recommended their kite because they are both great kites. The pivots power can be turned off and it's really responsive in waves. How do you usually ride waves? With drifting the kite or turning a lot?

I terms of boost, pivot won the red bull king of the air so that should not be a hard discussion.

Really...! A kite that wins king of the air also drifts better than the wave specific Neo. FFS, you should know better than talking absolute rubbish like that. One will always compromise the other.

Teabageppo wrote: ↑

Mon May 20, 2019 2:35 am

also drifts better than the wave specific Neo. FFS, you should know better than talking absolute rubbish like that

Show me where I wrote that?

tautologies wrote: ↑

Mon May 20, 2019 6:20 am

Teabageppo wrote: ↑

Mon May 20, 2019 2:35 am

also drifts better than the wave specific Neo. FFS, you should know better than talking absolute rubbish like that

Show me where I wrote that?

YEah no kidding......a little quick with the torches and pitchforks hey.