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Wainmann Punch, Boss, and Big Mama: too close to be practical?

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ChadAP
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Wainmann Punch, Boss, and Big Mama: too close to be practical?

Postby ChadAP » Mon May 27, 2019 9:51 am

I'm building up my first quiver. I started out with a Wainman Boss, a 12M kite. I weigh between 180-190lbs and ride a 145 Cabrinha Tronic. I'm thinking of adding the 10.5M Punch and the 14.5M Big Mama to give me more days on the water.

Are these sizes too close together?

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Re: Wainmann Punch, Boss, and Big Mama: too close to be practical?

Postby Big Wally » Mon May 27, 2019 2:41 pm

Can you still buy Wainman kites? I looked about a year ago and couldn’t find them.

BW

ChadAP
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Re: Wainmann Punch, Boss, and Big Mama: too close to be practical?

Postby ChadAP » Mon May 27, 2019 2:56 pm

Big Wally wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:41 pm
Can you still buy Wainman kites? I looked about a year ago and couldn’t find them.

BW
I bought my Boss used, and will probably do the same for the other kites I add to my first quiver. Was in great shape but had a leaking valve, which I had repaired at a local shop for a pretty reasonable fee.

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Re: Wainmann Punch, Boss, and Big Mama: too close to be practical?

Postby Matteo V » Mon May 27, 2019 3:27 pm

There is no problem with the same mfg/model of kite being too close. I'd love to have 1m increments between each kite size.

There is only a practicality problem when you can just carry a limited number of kites, either in your transportation or on your back hiking down to the water. If you set up your kites right next to your big roomy van, then it would be even better to have .5m increments. This would allow you to pump less kites by really sizing perfect for what you believe the conditions are.

But a problem comes up when you have less than 2m in between kites of different brands or even just different models (and sometimes even years). That problem is that sometimes a 9m of one brand/model/year can have as much or more power than a 10m of a different brand/model/year. While it is good to have kites close in size, overlap like this messes with your ability to pick one or the other and have it be the right kite.

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Re: Wainmann Punch, Boss, and Big Mama: too close to be practical?

Postby RalfsB » Mon May 27, 2019 4:03 pm

I can't speak about specific manufacturers and kites but those sizes you mentioned sound a bit too close. A reasonable rule of thumb is to have the next kite size like 1/4 or 1/3 bigger than the previous kite size. If I had a 12m, one size back would be 8 or 9 m; next size forward would be 16 - 18m. But that all, of course, is a matter of habit and personal preference.

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Re: Wainmann Punch, Boss, and Big Mama: too close to be practical?

Postby knotwindy » Mon May 27, 2019 4:27 pm

Are you a decisive person or not? The problem with kites too close together for some people is they spend most of the day on the beach trying to decide which size to take out as the wind fluctuates. We call it rigerbating. Also, it depends if you want to cover the largest range or be on the perfect kite with less overall coverage. But yea, to me those sound too close together. As a rule of thumb for a novice, find the kite size you will use the most and go up 3 sq meters and down 2 sq meters. As you get better and change styles you will find what works best for you.

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Re: Wainmann Punch, Boss, and Big Mama: too close to be practical?

Postby ChadAP » Mon May 27, 2019 6:12 pm

knotwindy wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 4:27 pm
As a rule of thumb for a novice, find the kite size you will use the most and go up 3 sq meters and down 2 sq meters. As you get better and change styles you will find what works best for you.
I'm not wanting to trap myself into switching kites more than riding, so appreciate the advice. You recommend sizing down 2M from the main kite and up 3M. These kites are within 1/2 sq m of being exactly that. Other than a lot of overlap, would a 10 or 9 be a better choice than 10.5; or 15 be better than 14.5? 14.5 is the largest delta kite in Wainman's line (was looking at a 17m Takoon on account of the low winds we get over the summer, but control bars aren't directly compatible).

Mainly, my interest in the 10.5 is that I found a good deal on one complete with bar, bag, and pump. The 9M smoke may be slightly better in my first quiver, but haven't seen any for sale lately.

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Re: Wainmann Punch, Boss, and Big Mama: too close to be practical?

Postby SENDIT! » Tue May 28, 2019 7:16 pm

ChadAP,
The normal quiver spread that I recommend for most folks, unless they live in some really windy spot, is 17/12/9. Depending on what you weigh, you could possibly go 15, but you'll get more out of the 17. At the point it's too much for that 17, the 12 is plenty good. And I've flown all 3 of those kites you're discussing. I used to sell Wainman and I really liked the Boss and the Punch, but the Big Mama wasn't very good (IMHO). You'd do better to get something along the lines of a Ocean Rodeo Flite 17, Cabrinha Contra 17, etc..they'll match range with the Boss pretty well. That was a pretty fun kite to fly, sort of a little powerhouse. The 9 Smoke is also good, though I liked the 10.5 better. Just understand that going with those old Wainman's is going to put you into a position where you won't be able to find replacement parts (which they for sure are going to be needing at their age) easily, if at all. Just my 2 cents. I've had a lot of time riding those kites, so shoot me a PM if you have further questions. Good luck and hope that helps.

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yzbob
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Re: Wainmann Punch, Boss, and Big Mama: too close to be practical?

Postby yzbob » Tue May 28, 2019 8:27 pm

i don't know that u will see much benefit from the big mama. They are quite heavy kites. i'm about 180lb and have the 6.5, 7, 9, 10.5 & 12 i couldn't ever see a use for the 14, 12 is already quite slow and heavy, doesn't give much more than moving the 10.5 around. I do get a lot of use out of the 10.5 it's probably my most used kite. I would look at lighter kites from other brands if you want to go bigger than 12m. foil kites or clouds or similar would be a much better investment.

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Re: Wainmann Punch, Boss, and Big Mama: too close to be practical?

Postby Matteo V » Wed May 29, 2019 1:56 am

knotwindy wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 4:27 pm
Are you a decisive person or not? The problem with kites too close together for some people is they spend most of the day on the beach trying to decide which size to take out as the wind fluctuates. We call it rigerbating. Also, it depends if you want to cover the largest range or be on the perfect kite with less overall coverage. But yea, to me those sound too close together. As a rule of thumb for a novice, find the kite size you will use the most and go up 3 sq meters and down 2 sq meters. As you get better and change styles you will find what works best for you.
knotty,

I guess I look at as the other way around. If I have the choice between a 12m and a 10m, and the wind looks to be a bit much for the 12m, but not quite enough for the 10m, then the choice will likely be the 12m. Unfortunately, if the wind comes up a bit, you will stop having fun on the 12m (or just resort to boosting). Then you have to rig down to the 10m....=2 kites pumped that session.

But if you had a choice between a 12m, 11m, and a 10m, you would have just picked the 11m and not have to rig 2 kites instead of 1.



Here is another scenario where you would benefit from having close sized kites - If you only have a 12m and a 10m and it is blowing 9-10m, but your 10m gets trashed and rips on your first run, an 11 could be made to work for an experienced kiter (with a good depower model kite). It can work the other way too if you have a 12m, 10m, and a 9m. In the same situation the 9m would be even better as a back up. Not to mention, most 9m kites will work down to 7m winds. There is additional risk, but most experienced kiters can make it work.

Just a note on flying too big of a kite - NEVER fly more than 2m bigger than the biggest kite you can have fun with. It is much better, and you will learn more, if you are flying too small of a kite as opposed to too big of a kite.


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