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Slingshot Raptor kite

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Matteo V
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Re: Slingshot Raptor kite

Postby Matteo V » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:14 am

james wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:10 pm
So you deliberately ignore the bit where I specified the UK?
It seems you may be applying a more liberal meaning to "specified" than I would.
james wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:12 am
Saw this yesterday at Portland in the UK, don't remember it as an an old model,

Something new on the way? Looked like a Rev humped an RPM
Then,
james wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:03 pm
BillyGoatGruff wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:56 pm
Is it 30% off yet?
.... said the disgruntled ex-slingshot dealer.. hey GRF :wink:
Said anyone that had seen slingshot bring sold in season at stupid discounts ruining what was once a strong brand

You only have to look at the number of shops that now don’t sell it in the UK to see it’s being run into the ground.
So I don't want to be accused of putting words in your mouth.....but would your last sentence benefit from a little being added to it (in blue):

"You only have to look at the number of shops that now don’t sell it in the UK to see it’s being run into the ground in the UK." Think so?




james wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:10 pm
And no the core comparison doesn’t work here either, prior to Graeme getting the brand it had very small coverage, dedicated but not really a retail brand, you might dislike him but GRF has seen the growth of Core in the Uk, by dealing with a few established stores, growing schools and not supplying winging little kids with a website working from their bedrooms or the biggest discount store in the UK
The growth and subsequent demise of Core was very much apparent in the states too, and it occurred at the same time as Graemey's run up with Core. I am not saying that it was just the market (timing) and Graemey was in the right place at the right time, but that case could be made. And Core had a pretty good run worldwide, but too many posers bought Core kites thinking that having "the most expensive" brand would make them better. And when you have a large percentage of a certain "fashion mentality" latching onto a single brand, that brand can be set up for a decline. I have seen this in skateboarding and some other sports on the fringes of what everyone else does. Even SlingShot was susceptible to this back when all of the non-pro, but pro capable freestyle/wakestyle riders were using SlingShot gear. But SlingShot was either smart, or lucky, in persuing the entire market. If SlingShot had focused on keeping prices high, and trying to sell an elite image, they would easily have less market share worldwide right now. Though, if the average Euro-mentality is truly centered on "high priced = fashionable", then a more Core like marketing stategy could have done well in European markets.

But whether you have a "pay more = be happier" mentality, or you just don't care about what name is on the side of the kite above you, there is some COREporation out there ready to take your money.

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Re: Slingshot Raptor kite

Postby james » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:36 am

Ok, we have a Portland in the UK

As I said UK I didn’t think it was that difficult to understand I was talking about “THE UK”

Clearly I was wrong.

Market specifics are exactly that, specific to your market, you think you have a handle on the USA, great. It doesn’t mean it applies to the UK

Likewise I think I have a decent grasp of the UK market and wouldn't for a moment think it applies to the USA

Especially to a USA based brand that has always enjoyed a decent market share.

Core doing well with GRF in the uk is nothing to do with what is it isn’t happening with core in the USA

What is true though that through decisions made by the UK distributor for slingshot is that they have lost much of the visibility and retail presence that they once enjoyed.

Given that one of the most high profile riders for them is a good friend and from The UK, I feel is a shame.

And thank you for scraping up a post from a different topic and bundling it with this one. How bored are you?

Matteo V
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Re: Slingshot Raptor kite

Postby Matteo V » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

james wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:36 am
Ok, we have a Portland in the UK

As I said UK I didn’t think it was that difficult to understand I was talking about “THE UK”

Clearly I was wrong.
No, you are still misunderstanding. Clarity to what you posit requires "in the UK".

So you could have done it this way:
"You only have to look at the number of shops that now don’t sell it in the UK to see it’s being run into the ground in the UK."

or

"With regards to SlingShot's UK market, you only have to look at the number of shops that now don’t sell it in the UK to see it’s being run into the ground here.




Again, your sentence structure implies or can be taken as 'SlingShot's market worldwide is declining because the UK is an example'. And you have stated that you did not intend to say that. No problem, just a bit of language issue. I too struggle with simplicity when writing. Complexity often leads to a clear explanation when I read through it, but a few others will take it to have a different meaning than I intended. And this is really only an issue when you note something of small consequence, but it is read as the opposite (big consequence).

james
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Re: Slingshot Raptor kite

Postby james » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:19 pm

At some point you just have to look yourself in the mirror and wonder why everyone else gets it and you just don’t.

Now is one of those times

Literally everyone one else understood, except you.

loco4viento
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Re: Slingshot Raptor kite

Postby loco4viento » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:16 pm

Some people take themselves way more seriously than most. Often they are the ones who have the longest and most argumentative posts in order to profess their ultimate wisdom. Aside from this character, refer to the supa king of sunglasses for another example. I personally don’t have the attention span to read their lengthy lectures. I like to glance and smile and be happy most of us take ourselves less seriously.
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coupdevill
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Re: Slingshot Raptor kite

Postby coupdevill » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:53 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:13 am
CaptainCore wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:21 pm
Is it 30% off yet?
No, they are usually full price most of the way through the season. Then from the end of the season through most of the next one, newbies and price conscious kiters can pick up 1 year old brand new gear for a reasonable price. This helps SlingShot get their brand name out there in places where there is no support from shops. It also gets a bunch of highly skilled kiters riding SlingShot gear in front of aspiring kiteboarders of every level. That is why SlingShot is pretty much the most used and available brand on the market. - Affordable if you are ok with not being on this years kite, and lots of used options.

There are other marketing strategies, like charging a premium for the same kite so that there is some appeal to those kiteboarders that think using the most expensive gear will give them some street credit with other kiters. Direct to market, like Switch, just skips the sale at the end of the year. Cabrinha did a dump of kites back in 2011-2012 and lots of kiters moved from North or Naish to them. But lots moved away again as soon as the availability of closeouts was restricted after 2013. So it is a chess game where changing strategies is more risky than sticking with a strategy that is already risky.

Again, SlingShot has a good strategy, along with good kites and customer service. Think about it - you can look like you are rich enough to afford Core by just getting this years model of SlingShot and changing out each year. Or you could buy SlingShot on closeout and still have new kites for an affordable price. Or you could buy used and have more choice of model, year, and condition, than from any other brand on the used market. No other brand, that I am aware of, has that many segments of the market covered.

Given the above, think about this - when you see some kiter on a Slingshot kite, they could be from any market segment. Rich, poor, A-- hole, friendly, stupid, conscientious,..... typically the SlingShot kite brand does not define that kiter to any measurable degree. But SlingShot mostly attracts dedicated kiters who don't give much credence to showing off how much they spent. And most would rather just kite and get better without relying on how much of a loan they had to take out for their gear, to speak to their status as a kiteboarder. SlingShot gear owners tend do define themselves with their skill and progress in the sport.

The bottom line is that any kite company could lose market share if they changed strategy given that many loyal customers rely on that strategy.
Well said!

The people at Slingshot are some of the most helpful people on the beach, answer questions, talk tech, inquire as to how you like your gear etc. It's also great to support a local brand here in Hood River. Most of us SS users know the product is bombs proof, proven and is there for support if you need it!

coup

coupdevill
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Re: Slingshot Raptor kite

Postby coupdevill » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:59 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm
james wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:36 am
Ok, we have a Portland in the UK

As I said UK I didn’t think it was that difficult to understand I was talking about “THE UK”

Clearly I was wrong.
No, you are still misunderstanding. Clarity to what you posit requires "in the UK".

So you could have done it this way:
"You only have to look at the number of shops that now don’t sell it in the UK to see it’s being run into the ground in the UK."

or

"With regards to SlingShot's UK market, you only have to look at the number of shops that now don’t sell it in the UK to see it’s being run into the ground here.




Again, your sentence structure implies or can be taken as 'SlingShot's market worldwide is declining because the UK is an example'. And you have stated that you did not intend to say that. No problem, just a bit of language issue. I too struggle with simplicity when writing. Complexity often leads to a clear explanation when I read through it, but a few others will take it to have a different meaning than I intended. And this is really only an issue when you note something of small consequence, but it is read as the opposite (big consequence).

Or put another way, SlingShot may have had a shitty distributer who ran it in the ground in the UK. Almost always, the Manufacturer owned Distributer has more brand success than a Contract Distributer.

coup
Last edited by coupdevill on Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

ScoopZ
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Re: Slingshot Raptor kite

Postby ScoopZ » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:21 pm

To be fair, they make durable products that last, but I think the point is no-one would pay full price for them considering they have not freshened up the product line. I don't see anyone on RPM's anymore at my local beaches and not for a no. of years. They used to be very popular.

The worst thing for me was ditching Pat and the 'Wave division', and Alex Fox describing the SB line as legacy products. No thanks.

Still, id like an asylum with 35% off :wink:
Let's hope they raised their game with the raptor.

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Re: Slingshot Raptor kite

Postby grigorib » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:51 pm

Kitesurfing market has been drawn segmented further apart. You'd see RPMs and unhooked action at the sliders, you'd see folks shred the waves where waves are, you'd see blasting speeds of foil racing at the events and beginners only wonder what gear to grab and where to go ride.

Fortunately there's welcoming world of freeride and whether it's an old door or regular twintip or a kitesurfboard or a foil under the feet - manufacturers are depending on that crowd, and they pick and choose how and by what to inspire freeriding nation.

Matteo V
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Re: Slingshot Raptor kite

Postby Matteo V » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:29 pm

ScoopZ wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:21 pm
To be fair, they make durable products that last, but I think the point is no-one would pay full price for them considering they have not freshened up the product line. I don't see anyone on RPM's anymore at my local beaches and not for a no. of years. They used to be very popular.

The worst thing for me was ditching Pat and the 'Wave division', and Alex Fox describing the SB line as legacy products. No thanks.

Still, id like an asylum with 35% off :wink:
Let's hope they raised their game with the raptor.
Guess I just think outside of the norm. To me, a good kite is pretty much timeless since 2011 or so. No new innovation has hit the market in design since then. So all the "newest, fastest, turniest, driftiest, unhookiest," are just screwing up what worked for what can be marketed as innovative.

I actyally would like some of my old kites from 2011 remade with 2013 materials. Both were good years, but since then........


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