now foil kiters are saying their kites drift better

[Matteo V]

I lapped him too... All down to the lei being better at slack, Oh and because i'm a dune riding machine!

So any theory on what is going on here?

I mean it looks like with buggy's, the all the best racers are biased toward foil kites, but yet an inflatable seems to be superior in this case.

vs.

All the best wave foilboarders are biased toward inflatables (and wish they could use them), but yet certain foils seem to be superior there.


This is getting confusing. So again, any theory on what is going on here? I have see lots of "feels" stated, but actual reasonable explanations seem hard to come by. This is going to be a long discussion if every time a race is won by one or the other, we have to change our assumptions.

[tomtom]

If i was there /and know how to ride buggy/ on P4 i was givin you lap too Joking of course.

But aha moment where i discover that Peak4 is such a beast was this winter riding on snowboard downhill downwind - just not possible on any other kite. I was using wave LEI before for snowkiting - because they was just more stable in rotors and drift somehow better or maybe without colapse downhill than foil kites. In mountains kite on slacked lines is usualy in turbulent wind so it tent to colapse not just drift. Peak 3 for example was horrible kite - slow turning and superfast colapse after slight slack in lines. If not for P4 - im still on LEIs /in mid to strong wind/

[tomtom]

All the best wave foilboarders are biased toward inflatables - where?

Who are wave foilboarders? There are like 3 people on earth who can proper foil wave ride with kite /they have to know surf foiling without kite/. From this you can hardly draw any conclusion.

We all others somehow riding HF on and between waves with using wave energy from time to time. Wave foiling still wait for specific gear and there is quite a lot people who thinks SS kites are so far best tool.

[Matteo V]

All the best wave foilboarders are biased toward inflatables - where?

Who are wave foilboarders? There are like 3 people on earth who can proper foil wave ride with kite /they have to know surf foiling without kite/. From this you can hardly draw any conclusion.

You are right in that my personal sample size is small. But given that some pretty popular ocean beaches within a few hours drive of Hood River, OR USA, have personally indicated to me that most foilboard surfers at least primarily utilize inflatables, my assumption is observable in at least one location. Couple that with the obvious issues with foil kites relaunch in the break that have been highlighted here, I then have some rational. Backing this, is also some statements directly in this thread that relaunch is an issue with foil kites, but not so much with inflatables. And almost any kiter would prefer good relaunch ability, even if they do not drop their kite on a regular basis. On top of that, inflatables are preferred in the surf on non-foil boards.

So could you come back with some reasoning and rational - possibly some personal experience and observations that would contradict what is reasonable and observable on many beaches on the west coast of the US?

And could you actually define your idea of "proper"? If you are commenting on the top 3 foil wave riders in the world, then I really don't care about them. I am more interested in the middle, to upper end of the bell curve as far as skill goes. Not to mention, the Peak4 has only been out for a short time, and a previous Peak3 owner has stated that it is not the same kite as far as being a "game changer" for drift capabilities.

[Flyfish]

All the best wave foilboarders are biased toward inflatables - where?

Who are wave foilboarders? There are like 3 people on earth who can proper foil wave ride with kite /they have to know surf foiling without kite/. From this you can hardly draw any conclusion.

You are right in that my personal sample size is small. But given that some pretty popular ocean beaches within a few hours drive of Hood River, OR USA, have personally indicated to me that most foilboard surfers at least primarily utilize inflatables, my assumption is observable in at least one location. Couple that with the obvious issues with foil kites relaunch in the break that have been highlighted here, I then have some rational. Backing this, is also some statements directly in this thread that relaunch is an issue with foil kites, but not so much with inflatables. And almost any kiter would prefer good relaunch ability, even if they do not drop their kite on a regular basis. On top of that, inflatables are preferred in the surf on non-foil boards.

So could you come back with some reasoning and rational - possibly some personal experience and observations that would contradict what is reasonable and observable on many beaches on the west coast of the US?

And could you actually define your idea of "proper"? If you are commenting on the top 3 foil wave riders in the world, then I really don't care about them. I am more interested in the middle, to upper end of the bell curve as far as skill goes. Not to mention, the Peak4 has only been out for a short time, and a previous Peak3 owner has stated that it is not the same kite as far as being a "game changer" for drift capabilities.

Matteo,
I would respectfully ask you to think about staying out of the conversation. It quite appears that you actually have zero foil kite experience. If you have something positive to add, great. But there's quite a lot of your posting about what "proper surfing is or isn't ", "I don't see any foil board riders using foil kites at my local beach", "foil kites are not good for wake style", ect....

edit:
Let it go and just go ride your tubes and be happy

[Ozone Kites AUS]

I'm not anti foil kites at all, I own some of the best

What does Ozone think of your Flysurfer kites?

They make good kites, I've owned several, especially liked the Speed series, but used them mainly on land in kite buggies. Did not like the bar and lines as much. But guess which brand I think is way better?

[Kamikuza]

If you're not in waves [or swell ] why does it matter whether or not one kite drifts better than another?

Have you ever foiled downwind with a hydrofoil that glides really well? A drifting kite is about a lot more than traditional wave kiting in the current hydrofoil era. A significant percentage of riders who are looking at the drifting ability of foil kites are hydrofoilers. Our need for drift is something that surface board riders have not experienced. (general statement....not implying that you are one of these people). So yes, the question is about "drift" not "wave riding".

I do not foil. Why is kite drift important to hydrofoilers?

That is a question

Because you can go downwind or at the kite faster, easier and for longer periods of time than a "traditional" board.

[bragnouff]

it's mostly due to the fact that going downwind like that is done in lighter winds than when done on other vessels, which shifts the requirements.
It's definitely not uncommon to downwind that deep and that fast on a surfboard or TT, but it's done in higher winds, and because you have to fight more to earn some disposable upwind capital, you tend to be a bit more careful about downwinding that hard. It's actually after riding a fair bit on a foil, that you tend to get used to those deep angles, and that you tend to apply that to other types of boards whenever possible.

[Matteo V]

Matteo,
I would respectfully ask you to think about staying out of the conversation. It quite appears that you actually have zero foil kite experience. If you have something positive to add, great. But there's quite a lot of your posting about what "proper surfing is or isn't ", "I don't see any foil board riders using foil kites at my local beach", "foil kites are not good for wake style", ect....

edit:
Let it go and just go ride your tubes and be happy

No, I m not one of those that believes there is "proper surf". I started "improperly surfing" lake shore break. With a kite, pretty much any wave can be surfed in one manner or another. I tend to disagree strongly with those beliveing there is only one type of wave you can surf properly.

And I actually started my kite experience with non-depower foil kites and c-kites, then depower foils, then SLE's. At the same time I was using SLE's fir the first time, I was also using closed cell foils.

I have very little time using closed cell foil kites with hydrofoils. So that is definitely a weakness in my background. I also have not flown the Peak4 at all, though I do have some time on the snow with all of the previous versions.

But I will not "respectfully ask", anything of you. It is good that you presented an incorrect set of assumptions for me to rebut and clarify my background. Please continue as I feel you have much more to add.

[Kamikuza]

it's mostly due to the fact that going downwind like that is done in lighter winds than when done on other vessels, which shifts the requirements.
It's definitely not uncommon to downwind that deep and that fast on a surfboard or TT, but it's done in higher winds, and because you have to fight more to earn some disposable upwind capital, you tend to be a bit more careful about downwinding that hard. It's actually after riding a fair bit on a foil, that you tend to get used to those deep angles, and that you tend to apply that to other types of boards whenever possible.

TT/SB is more draggy so more tension is kept in the lines. If the wind is stronger, you can just go faster downwind. The advantage then is that any kite with slack lines will be "caught" sooner.

Implicit in that downwind point is longer, wider radius carves with much less slash no need for more power. That'll be the occasions you'll not notice when you notice slack lines performance (formerly known as drift) and you're not on a wave or swell..