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now foil kiters are saying their kites drift better

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tomtom
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Re: now foil kiters are saying their kites drift better

Postby tomtom » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:00 pm

Try Peak 4... in 4m and 3m you can forget about positive bar feedback - it have positive neural feedback. It is controlled by your mind. Power to power it respond faster and turn quicker than wave LEI - and most important it is always reactive /LEI on slacked lines is not/.
Not enough upwind abilities to use with surfboard though... For now it is HF or SB downwinder only kite. I was LEI hardliner for almost 20 years... But times are changing.

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Re: now foil kiters are saying their kites drift better

Postby elguapo » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:23 pm

or6 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:19 pm
Well, somebody show me a movie of a foil kite performing well in the surf and I'll buy it.

Literally 😁
i do my best not to be anyone's cheerleader...
but...

the Waves from Concept Air(at least the smaller sizes) are the best surf kites there's ever been.
..in my humble opinion.

..has excellent drift (imo, as well as peak4...but waves don't have that low end)
..is stable at apex...oooh and it is relaunchable (almost to a fault)


your movie sir..
Last edited by elguapo on Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

andylc
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Re: now foil kiters are saying their kites drift better

Postby andylc » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:42 pm

Not much point telling us about a 3m / 4m wave kite - this is only useful for hydrofoiling...so it’s not a wave kite....
Last edited by andylc on Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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or6
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Re: now foil kiters are saying their kites drift better

Postby or6 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:52 pm

Thnx, elguapo. I'd actually seen that movie, and it already got me interested in the concept airs. Afaik, however, you can't get them here in Holland. I'd love to try one.

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Re: now foil kiters are saying their kites drift better

Postby elguapo » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:07 pm

andylc wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:42 pm
Not much point telling us about a 3m / 4m wave kite - this is only useful for hydrofoiling...so it’s not a wave kite....

wasnt sure if yer serious...
or maybe my desires for "kitesurfing" are different (i'd rather not have a giant kite pulling me constantly)
ideally...a surf kite for kitesurfing only replaces paddling...and pulls (provides enough power) ONLY when needed.
i'd like to ....you know...maybe try to ride a wave(or swell) and not simply get dragged "down the line" in front of breaking waves



either way.. a video for you to0 (sir)




same concept wave in 4.5m...without the hydrofoil.

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Re: now foil kiters are saying their kites drift better

Postby TomW » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:14 pm

andylc wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:41 pm
Drift is all very well but for a good wave kite you also want (or at last I do) a fast responding kite with good positive bar feedback. When a foil kite comes out with all of that then maybe LEIs will have competition in waves. Not sure it’s gonna happen though.
I'm hydrofoiling with Hyperlink UL 9m and 7m standard. I have to agree with this. The drift is outstanding compared to my old quiver of north Monos that drifted well. The response is still slower. But if I trim right the Hyperlink still responds well enough. Overall I prefer the Hyperlinks.

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Re: now foil kiters are saying their kites drift better

Postby tomtom » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:22 pm

andylc wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:42 pm
Not much point telling us about a 3m / 4m wave kite - this is only useful for hydrofoiling...so it’s not a wave kite....
at 86 kg 4m im well powered on SB from 18knts - its ca. 6m wave Lei equivalent. 3m is SB kite from 25knts. /5m LEI power/

And no its not wave kite its snowkite - but somehow its better wave kite than wave kites :)

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Re: now foil kiters are saying their kites drift better

Postby tomtom » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:39 pm

TomW wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:14 pm
andylc wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:41 pm
Drift is all very well but for a good wave kite you also want (or at last I do) a fast responding kite with good positive bar feedback. When a foil kite comes out with all of that then maybe LEIs will have competition in waves. Not sure it’s gonna happen though.
I'm hydrofoiling with Hyperlink UL 9m and 7m standard. I have to agree with this. The drift is outstanding compared to my old quiver of north Monos that drifted well. The response is still slower. But if I trim right the Hyperlink still responds well enough. Overall I prefer the Hyperlinks.
Most of foil kites are slow turners - unfortunately. But in sizes 7 and smaller its not so much problem - IMO HL 7 is fast turning kite and HL 5 is "you dont want it to turn any faster"
For example kitech FRS turn even faster than HL. HL was never designed as wave kite and in sizes 7 and 5 have power to power same turning speed as wave LEI. Peak4 is actually even faster than wave LEI.

BUT BIG BUT

You dont need super quick turner kite for wave riding. You only use this super quick turning to move kite in WW and force him not to slack line and actually fly and not fall. But you only realize this if you experience kite which actually really drift and you "dont need loop shit out of it".

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Re: now foil kiters are saying their kites drift better

Postby Foil_Adict » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:57 am

Can confirm everything said by TomTom, there really is no debating this. The Peak4 is a dream kite for drift on a surf foil. Didn't know I needed this level of drift until I started riding my hydrofoil in the surf. Even in conditions blowing 15+ I was constantly worried I would slack the lines on my SST and cause it to fall from the sky. I am used to flying small waves kites and love to be on an under sized wave kite for downwinders on a surf board. I have no trouble looping and positioning a kite where it needs to be to keep tension while wave riding. It was a fun challenge on a surfboard and I still like that riding style. However, the peak 4 opens up a whole new level of downwind riding. I don't even have to think about the kite while riding. Can just ride the wave or swell whereever I want. Just sheet out and ride. Kite disappears. As soon as you are done send the kite and sheet in and the kite is immediately back providing you a ride back out to catch another wave. On my hydrofoil I noticed no drop off in upwind ability vs my SST. An no more pucker factor when the combined speed of wave and wind becomes too much on a foil. Remember foils can't just edge harder to kill speed.

They are not perfect kites, because one does not exist. They don't jump and they are very unlikely to relaunch if you some how loose track of it and crash it(hard to imagine but I am sure it's inevitable) . But man, they are mind blowing for hydrofoil wave riding. :thumb:
tomtom wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:21 pm
Mid aspect foil kites tend to drift better than wave LEI - somewhat better like 20-50% better. They also fly better on they own tend to recover better - with less BANG.

there is no upside downside debate about this - In drift they are better.


Anyway PEAK 4 - single skin kite drift approximately 300% better - to the point you can just do whatever you fucking want and kite just follow.
This kite had many downsides - doesnt jump, poor L/D = poor upwind - but in drift is Unbelievable better than anything else.

Reason why wave freeride foilers use PEAK 4 is that nothing require as much drift as wave HF. Nothing test kite drift like wave HF and we were constantly unhappy with "normal" kites. LEI were worst - mid aspect foil kites were better and PEAK is first really "ride board and forget kite" kite

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bragnouff
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Re: now foil kiters are saying their kites drift better

Postby bragnouff » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:46 am

tomtom wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:39 pm

You dont need super quick turner kite for wave riding. You only use this super quick turning to move kite in WW and force him not to slack line and actually fly and not fall. But you only realize this if you experience kite which actually really drift and you "dont need loop shit out of it".
Depends really... It's not all drift and surf! Sometimes you need to go over some soft bits and link a section, or you want to set the kite in the other direction in the WW ahead of a turn, or just want to change direction instantly and just yank the kite 180 degrees. Those are cases where speed of reaction and quick turnability absolutely matter. And those cases are not about just keeping the kite in the air. It's all about positioning your kite optimally for your next hit on the wave. Sure in perfect conditions, where waves peel forever with no mushy parts to go over, then yeah, it can be all drift and surf, park and forget. In real world conditions though, sometimes flying the kite is a great part of kite-surfing. Your kite is not something that is detrimental to your surfing, it can be a great asset.

Fully agree that for foil surfing, and surfing in marginal winds, then sure, some foil kites would outdo some LEIs.
But surfing waves is also about getting upwind efficiently to get to the next one, coping with gusty winds, dumping all power on demand, and surviving the odd crash in the drink. That Peak4 is yet to fill those needs when riding a surfboard.


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