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Best lines on the market

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Matteo V
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Re: Best lines on the market

Postby Matteo V » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:36 am

POACHER wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:06 pm
Not sure if I mentioned it, but the SK99 lineset was pretty inexpensive off of Ebay from Australia.
$180 shipped. Sold the stock lines for $125.
You sold the stock North lines for $125? You ripped someone off bad! I would only give $20 for a full quad line set, and only because you can get about 1 year out of them as steering lines.

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Re: Best lines on the market

Postby POACHER » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:48 am

They were brand new. Sold immediately on Ebay.
Look up how much North/Duotone charges for the full line set.

Thanks for letting us all know what you would actually pay though. I was on the edge of my seat....
Last edited by POACHER on Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Matteo V
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Re: Best lines on the market

Postby Matteo V » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:50 am

POACHER wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:48 am
Thanks for letting us all know what you would actually pay though. I was on the edge of my seat....
No problem! How much would you pay for a new set of North lines?

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Re: Best lines on the market

Postby Gigi;) » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:06 am

We use LIROS lines for years now. No failing at all and minimum stretch.

https://drtuba.eu/products/repair-kits- ... ding-lines

:bye:

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Re: Best lines on the market

Postby kitelife » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:02 pm

SamPolish wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:32 am
Hi all,
I have tried few different bars over last two years, in need of changing my worn out core pro lines to new decent set but can not fully make my mind up on what to use.
In my opinion best long lasting lines were slingshot lines and I'm thinking of getting a set for my core bar to rework steering lines to the right lengths.
Is it sensible idea?
Would you recommend any better lines or different options?
Yep. Slingshot lines.

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Re: Best lines on the market

Postby Foil » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:30 pm

Whose Line is that?
Throughout manufacturers' webs sites, you will see references made to flight line and bridle lines made out of Dyneema or Spectra. The terms tend to be used interchangeably which leads to some confusion. Practically speaking for the consumer, they are the same thing, but the respective copyright and trademark holders might take issue with casual use of the names.
Dyneema is a registered trade name of the Dutch company DSM Dyneema, B.V. They have a factory in Greenville, NC, U.S.A. All the European brands of kite line sets that we know of are made of Dyneema.

Spectra is a registered trade name of the U.S. firm Honeywell International Inc.

Both are fibers independently developed by their respective manufacturers and while their production details likely differ, both are made of Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene, or UHMWPE fibers. The following shared characteristics make them perfect for kite lines and bridles:

Weight for weight, they are up to 15 times stronger than steel and up to 40% stronger than Kevlar (DuPont).
Being slender for their strength, they offer less aerodynamic drag than other types of line.
They are more abrasion resistant than high carbon steel.
They are resistant to UV light.
They do not absorb water (and they float).
They exhibit very low stretch compared to nylon or Dacron lines (like comparing steel wire to rubber bands).
The most common method of forming loops in the ends of the kite lines had always been to slip woven tubular sleeves over the ends and tie them with an over-hand or figure-eight knot, Knots will weaken the line, so the sleeving serves to protect and strengthen the knot by keeping the strands from cutting through themselves. The sleeving also adds abrasion protection to the loops, and makes a larkshead knot easier to untie. Just about all modern commercial production line sets are now sewn instead of knotted.Sleeves and/ or the lines themselves are usually color coded to help keep things sorted out, and following nautical tradition, it is customary to put red on the left.
Knotted and sewn sleeved line loops
sewn loops are joined with a zig-zag stitch and the knotted loops are secured with a figure-eight knot or in this case, a couple of overhand knots. Sleeving is usually woven dacron.
While Dyneema and Spectra exhibit low stretch, any stretch at all caused by the stresses of flight can de-tune a bridle or cause flight lines to be mismatched in length. For this reason, any reputable manufacturer will pre-stretch their lines before assembly so that their kites will better maintain their flying shape and trim characteristics. Fans of Spectra will point out that it will stretch only about 3%, or about half as much as Dyneema. Laser Pro Gold is a popular brand of Spectra that is specifically woven for kite flying and is standard on Revolution kites. If you have ever seen precision flight teams like iQuad fly their Rev's, you will appreciate the need for for the precision feel that comes from low stretch.

A North American brand of line popular with kiteboarders and kitesurfers is Q-Powerline from Q-Power Sports. They are based in Canada with distribution within the US. Q-PowerLine features a spectra core surrounded by a braided spectra sheath. The sheath is woven tightly with fibers at ninety degree angles, forming a tight barrier that won't let even the finest beach sand in to abrade the fibers of the inner core. Another advantage of the sheath is that it allows you to tie knots to form loops at the ends without additional braided sleeving. This makes it easy and economical to buy bulk spools and make your own custom line sets. They also make Q-PowerLine Pro, a premium grade of the line that is 33% thinner for the same strength as the regular Q-PowerLine.

Knotted Q-Line loop
Because the entire line is sheathed, no external sleeving is needed. The knot is a figure-eight knot and the free end is whipped (wrapped) with thread so that it does not become a hook to snag another line. Looks neater too

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Re: Best lines on the market

Postby nixmatters » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:59 pm

2 statements above need a clarification:
1. "Practically speaking for the consumer, they are the same thing."
- Unless there is a new Spectra yarn used for kite lines, the Spectra 2000 specs correspond to Dyneema SK65, which to my knowledge is no longer used by any European kite line manufacturer. They all use either SK75, SK78 (unnecessary, as kite likes are not subject to creep) or SK99 in the premium segment and race lines.
2. "Fans of Spectra will point out that it will stretch only about 3%, or about half as much as Dyneema"
- Lately it has been discussed a lot, here and in other forums, that KITE LINES DON'T STRETCH. THEY SHRINK. And since rear lines shrink more, it gives the false impression that front lines stretch.
I was surprised to see few posts above the same stretch claim from such an established aftermarket player as Dr.Tuba. Same claim is on the front page of their website. I'd guess marketing - give the customers what they want.

As for the SS lines - someone posted a link to a kite line review in a 2015 edition of a German kite magazine. SS lines strength was at the bottom of the list. Nevertheless, I've heard quite a few people praising their longevity.

Update, from kite_hh post on page 1:
This is an article on lines. It is in German, nevertheless you may able to get some information on current lines from it (see table).
https://www.liros.com/fileadmin/user_up ... sprobe.pdf
Last edited by nixmatters on Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Best lines on the market

Postby iriejohn » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:04 pm

That's very kind of you to have copied and pasted almost all of your post from Coastal Windsports, however you have omitted to credit their web site as the source.
Foil wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:30 pm
Whose Line is that?
Throughout manufacturers' webs sites, you will see references made to flight line and bridle lines made out of Dyneema or Spectra. The terms tend to be used interchangeably which leads to some confusion. Practically speaking for the consumer, they are the same thing, but the respective copyright and trademark holders might take issue with casual use of the names.
Dyneema is a registered trade name of the Dutch company DSM Dyneema, B.V. They have a factory in Greenville, NC, U.S.A. All the European brands of kite line sets that we know of are made of Dyneema.

Spectra is a registered trade name of the U.S. firm Honeywell International Inc.

Both are fibers independently developed by their respective manufacturers and while their production details likely differ, both are made of Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene, or UHMWPE fibers. The following shared characteristics make them perfect for kite lines and bridles:

Weight for weight, they are up to 15 times stronger than steel and up to 40% stronger than Kevlar (DuPont).
Being slender for their strength, they offer less aerodynamic drag than other types of line.
They are more abrasion resistant than high carbon steel.
They are resistant to UV light.
They do not absorb water (and they float).
They exhibit very low stretch compared to nylon or Dacron lines (like comparing steel wire to rubber bands).
The most common method of forming loops in the ends of the kite lines had always been to slip woven tubular sleeves over the ends and tie them with an over-hand or figure-eight knot, Knots will weaken the line, so the sleeving serves to protect and strengthen the knot by keeping the strands from cutting through themselves. The sleeving also adds abrasion protection to the loops, and makes a larkshead knot easier to untie. Just about all modern commercial production line sets are now sewn instead of knotted.Sleeves and/ or the lines themselves are usually color coded to help keep things sorted out, and following nautical tradition, it is customary to put red on the left.
Knotted and sewn sleeved line loops
sewn loops are joined with a zig-zag stitch and the knotted loops are secured with a figure-eight knot or in this case, a couple of overhand knots. Sleeving is usually woven dacron.
While Dyneema and Spectra exhibit low stretch, any stretch at all caused by the stresses of flight can de-tune a bridle or cause flight lines to be mismatched in length. For this reason, any reputable manufacturer will pre-stretch their lines before assembly so that their kites will better maintain their flying shape and trim characteristics. Fans of Spectra will point out that it will stretch only about 3%, or about half as much as Dyneema. Laser Pro Gold is a popular brand of Spectra that is specifically woven for kite flying and is standard on Revolution kites. If you have ever seen precision flight teams like iQuad fly their Rev's, you will appreciate the need for for the precision feel that comes from low stretch.

A North American brand of line popular with kiteboarders and kitesurfers is Q-Powerline from Q-Power Sports. They are based in Canada with distribution within the US. Q-PowerLine features a spectra core surrounded by a braided spectra sheath. The sheath is woven tightly with fibers at ninety degree angles, forming a tight barrier that won't let even the finest beach sand in to abrade the fibers of the inner core. Another advantage of the sheath is that it allows you to tie knots to form loops at the ends without additional braided sleeving. This makes it easy and economical to buy bulk spools and make your own custom line sets. They also make Q-PowerLine Pro, a premium grade of the line that is 33% thinner for the same strength as the regular Q-PowerLine.

Knotted Q-Line loop
Because the entire line is sheathed, no external sleeving is needed. The knot is a figure-eight knot and the free end is whipped (wrapped) with thread so that it does not become a hook to snag another line. Looks neater too
Last edited by iriejohn on Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mossy 757
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Re: Best lines on the market

Postby Mossy 757 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:06 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:04 pm
That's very kind of you to have copied and pasted almost all of your post from Coastal Windsports while omitting to credit their web site as the source.

Pretty sure he wasn't expecting credit on his term paper, Professor... :roll:

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Re: Best lines on the market

Postby Foil » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:03 pm

I use both the power Q line and SK99, on different bars.
I believe the core strands are the same spectra or dyneema, the braided sheaths are very different, that is plain to see when you study a length in your hands.
easiest to wind in or out from my bar is SK99,
easiest to custom make your lines and easily change the lengths even on the beach, is of course Q line.
less wind resistance? which is probably more important for flying ultra light foil kites, will not be standard Q line, but rather Q pro or sk99.
I have tested the breaking strain of standard kite line from a major brand, using a 600kg mini crane gauge and a small 2 ton car trolly jack to pull the line to breaking point, the standard line of around 2 years old, snapped at around 170kg,
with a random overhand knot added,then the line snapped at 47kg.yikes!
both tests were repeated many times, once whilst my buddy was watching the random knot test, as he could not believe the reduced strength, he had to see it for himself.

Standard Q line with the simple random knot added, exploded at near 150kg, but trying to break a plain length of Q line was problematic, at 200kg to 270kg my securing knots were slipping and creaking loudly, making me turn my head away at the final few very hard pushes of the trolly jack handle, and when it did go, it just stretched at the center point as if it was overheating, weird, and I could not catch the reading as the effort required on my mini trolly jack was such I had to use two hands on the handle and really push very hard, so I was at the rear of the crane gauge unable to spot the numbers.
I will not be testing the SK99 as it's fairly new with spliced ends.
my vote for the best line for most users will have to go to SK99, nice to use, slippy line to roll out, thinner than standard Q line, reliably super strong, easy to manage,
If you want to mess around with any length of line combination and change it yourself very quickly, but still want line that will take your most aggressive mega loop after just getting through the christmas season of puddings,chocolate and wine/beer, then standard Qline will keep you safe.

Never used the pro q line, much thinner, and tested to lower breaking points, but many swear by pro Q line.

As yet in over 19 years I have never heard of anyone ever breaking Q line, not surprising really, when you look at the specs in the original cut and paste I posted above. but is it the best? for some maybe, for the masses maybe not.


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