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Jumping fully powered

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grigorib
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Re: Jumping fully powered

Postby grigorib » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:18 pm

Herman wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:00 am
Why are you trimming in the first place?

What do you not like about jumping the 11?

Do you like landing with a lot of forward speed?

Do have trim pulled in for optimal angle of attack? How heavy are you?
Because my line is 5-7-9-11 and I prefer to jump on 9 as it’s loftier than 7 and faster than 11. So I’d trim in a bit so I can bring the bar closer to me and edge harder if the wind is stronger than for fully powered 9

11m is just slower and I guess a fully powered 9 would be my choice over trimmed in 11

I can comfortably but it’s not my preferred way of landing. But of course I don’t like stalling either

I pull the depower when I feel that I kind of ride with my arms stretched out and I like to edge hard and so if I feel the bar needs to be closer to me - I trim in.

205 lbs 137x42cm Spleene board
Last edited by grigorib on Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

grigorib
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Re: Jumping fully powered

Postby grigorib » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:22 pm

Herman wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:50 pm
Maybe I have misunderstood, but if you are proposing to take an oversized kite trimmed in, what happens if the wind picks up?
...
When I say “trimmed in” I don’t mean “fully”. When I feel wind building up so I’m on last 10% of depower - I’d likely be tempted to rig smaller size.

But the same is for “fully powered” - if wind drops I don’t want to walk back so at that moment I consider pumping up a larger size

grigorib
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Re: Jumping fully powered

Postby grigorib » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:27 pm

knotwindy wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:37 am

However at the moment of being fully powered on 5m or on 7m or on 9m I'd be tempted to pick a larger size because fully powered now doesn't mean I will still be fully powered 20 minutes later

What does 20 minutes later have to do with jumping now?

Also, if we are talking about sent jumps, the depower will slacken the back lines some and slow the ‘send’ some. Not what you want at all. :nono:
If I go out for 45 minutes active session and I can manage fully powered kite I’d feel I rigged a smaller size than I should have rigged. And if wind drop just a tad - it would be a lazy waste of time session.

I don’t depower fully, just a tad so my stance is more leaning back.

No slack in the back lines - solid tension in the back lines is the prerequisite for good jumping (for me)

grigorib
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Re: Jumping fully powered

Postby grigorib » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:30 pm

deniska wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:22 am
grigorib wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:01 pm

However if you put your example - depowered 9m vs. fully powered 7m - I'd rather ride depowered 9m (unless it's fully depowered)
most people would choose to be silly powered on 9 over proper 7...
cause in gusty wind 7 drops you like a rock :-)
...
Exactly that. 9 is floatier and holds me up better than a 7. And jumping on 5m feels a bit adventurous- I know I can send it much harder, but it’s the rock drop landing possibility which holds me back a bit

grigorib
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Re: Jumping fully powered

Postby grigorib » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:35 pm

deniska wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:36 am
grigorib wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:01 pm
However at the moment of being fully powered on 5m or on 7m or on 9m I'd be tempted to pick a larger size because fully powered now doesn't mean I will still be fully powered 20 minutes later
you ride hydrofoils, do you?
What I do, I bring one kite and 2 boards to the beach: small 132TT and freerace HF.. that usually covers most of my jumping..if the wind dies for TT I can still do Ok on HF and I usually get at least 30ft one way or the other regardless of the wind swings, unless I get caught in some extra constraints (like too shallow to foil or too gusty or too much fish) or I get skunked completely..
Right. Foil is preferred for winds 20 knots and less. Twintip for downwinders, shallows and seaweed-infested water.

It’s just the fully trimmed out kite in the picture caught my attention. If I have to fully power up on twintip and the 9 - it’d be probably good wind to foil

Herman
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Re: Jumping fully powered

Postby Herman » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:08 pm

I have found it very interesting how such different attitudes to trimming can be made to work. I must admit it took me a long time to realise just how important angle attack control was when refinining a kite led jumping trick. I shall continue experimenting on my never ending learning curve!

I like riding with my arms outstretched, guess old windsurfing habits die hard!

Matteo V
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Re: Jumping fully powered

Postby Matteo V » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:27 pm

Inflatables are all over the place for trim (old school C-kites trim like a foil).

When a SLE cone's in high winds and more sheeting in, you can lose a bit of airfoil section efficiency for that windspeed. That sentence leads to multiple points.

Smaller rider with the same model/size kite = kite will preform differently than a bigger rider.
Where a rider works the kite (dynamically throughout the jump) in the window for pop, or hangtime.
Line length
Sheeting timing
Loading/release timing


And that is just scratching the surface on the same kite. Just wait till you throw in different SLE models. But after that, you still have foil kites and c-kites.

Foil kites rarely trim (depower strap in too high winds) well in advanced models. Most do not have "loss of steering vs depower" issues, but a few do. Yes some beginner foils will trim well like inflatables, but they are usually neutered in performance.

C-kites, by geometry don't have access to sheeting depower comparable to foils (real AOA change) or SLE's (AOA and coning/distortion of airfoil section).


The main point is that you need to figure out each individual kite model. At the same time, because or scaling or rider weight issues, you need to learn a feel for each different kite size within a single model range. There are some general principles, but the details hold the key to boosting.

fzonatto
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Re: Jumping fully powered

Postby fzonatto » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:34 am

Always when possible I ride overpowered.

I use an 9 and 11m rebel, dont need a smaller size for big jump, the kite trimmed loose performance I really hate and sometimes I trimmed just to go a bit up wind but for jumping golf I have do trim I have to change the kite.

Until 30 knot I am on my 11m

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Re: Jumping fully powered

Postby Hugh2 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:02 am

fzonatto wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:34 am
Always when possible I ride overpowered.

I use an 9 and 11m rebel, dont need a smaller size for big jump, the kite trimmed loose performance I really hate and sometimes I trimmed just to go a bit up wind but for jumping golf I have do trim I have to change the kite.

Until 30 knot I am on my 11m
You must be a big strong guy to hold an 11m up to 30 knots. I'm down to 7m by then (85kg and 63 years old). But generally I agree on trim and power. This past summer in Cape Town I was inspired more than ever by the KOTA, and had my 7m Pivot setup and ready to go as soon as the event ended each day. I therefore could ride in practically the same conditions as the competitors, but on a smaller kite, and with nobody else on the water at Kite Beach. I got some wonderful big floaty jumps, and discovered that if I trimmed the kite about half way on the tack back to shore I could easily maintain control and get back upwind (you see Kevin Langaree do essentially the same thing in some of his Cape Town jumping videos as when riding back upwind he has his bar extended all the way). Then when back at the beach as I transitioned I would pop the trim back to full power and blast over a couple of little waves and launch off the first available ramp, big or small, and have a great jump. Surely less than half the height of Kevin's jumps, but enormous for me. On subsequent less windy days I tried the same approach with my 9m Pivot and of course got extra long floaty jumps, even having to call out to some riders below to avoid my landing, as I had not anticipated such long jumps (my bad!).

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Re: Jumping fully powered

Postby Toby » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:50 am

This is my setup since day one: fully powered! (Not overpowered!!!)

The kite is trimmed at full power when the bar is all the way down, since here I log into my Microloop, so I can float along with maximum power.

Check this video, I explain it: https://strictlyhooked.com/viewtopic.php?t=2465


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