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Wingsurfing Right of Way

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PullStrings
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Re: Wingsurfing Right of Way

Postby PullStrings » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:07 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:26 pm
Right of way situations only occur when there is no room to both pass while holding the same course.
:thumb:

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Re: Wingsurfing Right of Way

Postby Matteo V » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:34 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:04 pm
As ever, it's all about you.
Dang, man! You doing ok? Sounds like a pretty rough night at the bar.

And this topic is not about me wingsurfing and how to stop kiters from running into me. I posted out of genuine concern for those interactions that could result in injuries, confrontation, or banning of both wingsurfing and kitesurfing. And again, I do not even wingsurf or truly intend to dabble in it much beyond a refresher/water intro.

But like james says, I guess I don't get when you are just being sarcastic. Sorry. So I will take your post as sarcasm meaning you actually hold the opposite belief.

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Re: Wingsurfing Right of Way

Postby james » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:55 pm

If that is your interpretation it shows emphatically that sarcasm is utterly lost on you..

If as you state above your true aim was ( matty Random
Diatribe) why didn’t you state it originally?

Either as we all Suspect it’s part of your little game to deliberately be ambiguous awkward and make threads about you

Or you are now frantically back peddling when you realise that no one commenting holds your position.

A point you make about foils being constrained by draft,

Your pecking order only works if every person on the water is aware of every foilers mast length and competence, which they won’t be..

Surely also you need to consider turn rate of everyone’s kite? Different sizes and models will turn at differing rates changing the manoeuvrability thus needing additional ranking to work out the correct pecking order.
But remember some 12turn like a 9 and a slacked out 10 turn like a 13.5

Could you produce a brand and model comparison sheet for us so that we don’t end up incorrectly calling for right of way and ending up in an accident.

Remember to factor in depth of water, speed, wind strength twin tip, surf board race/slalom board wake board foil board use as well as a separate strapless category, oh and water state ability level and if the rider is wearing polarised sunglasses

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Re: Wingsurfing Right of Way

Postby knotwindy » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:59 pm

Also lifejacket type and helmet with color shade for visibility at distance.
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Re: Wingsurfing Right of Way

Postby Matteo V » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:03 pm

Thanks for answering for iriejohn. Did he pass out on you?



james wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:55 pm
A point you make about foils being constrained by draft,

Your pecking order only works if every person on the water is aware of every foilers mast length and competence, which they won’t be..
And they say I "nitpick" things! I pretty much assume every foil mast is around 90cm with a Kitefoilboard. If shorter, then I still consider it 90cm. If longer, well....I still am going to leave a decent margin of error/tide miscalculation factor of safety in there.

The short answer is that I really do not need to know anything other than:

Twintip gets 8cm of depth consideration

Surfboard gets 20cm of depth consideration

Windsurfer gets 35cm of depth consideration (more in light wind or slalom board)

Hydrofoil (windsurffoil, surf-foil, kite-hydrofoiler) gets 100cm of consideration





james wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:55 pm
Surely also you need to consider turn rate of everyone’s kite? Different sizes and models will turn at differing rates changing the manoeuvrability thus needing additional ranking to work out the correct pecking order.
But remember some 12turn like a 9 and a slacked out 10 turn like a 13.5

Could you produce a brand and model comparison sheet for us so that we don’t end up incorrectly calling for right of way and ending up in an accident.
No, that does not matter. I am aware you are being sarcastic here, but for the ESL forum users here, I will still explain why this is wrong. Kite turning is more a factor of the kiter's inputs. Proof of this is that I fly some really slow turning kites. But when other kiters watch me, they think they turn really fast. Then when I let them fly my kites, they understand that it is technique and timing that turns the kite. Some kites do turn really fast, but slow kites do have tricks to make them turn much faster. Having your trim set to access backstall on the bar throw will allow you to stall out a wing tip and get the kite to turn faster. Also, just keeping the kite in the back of the window will allow more turning speed, as opposed to trying to turn the kite off the edge of the window. As a riders change in direction can change the apparent wind window, a sudden turn upwind just a half second after turning inputs are sent to the kite can make the kite turn much faster.

So no, I do not consider type of kite to be a consideration as it is reasonable that 2 riders with the same skill and kite, would have different turning styles/speeds. But I would notice that as I am riding or setting up my kit.

However, If I (at 100kg) pumped up an 8m kite because the wind speed required that size, I would definitely yield to a 80kg kiter coming in "tea-bagging" with a 17m. Thus in an overpowered situation, I would yield to a person who is "out of control" overpowered.



james wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:55 pm
Remember to factor in depth of water, speed, wind strength twin tip, surf board race/slalom board wake board foil board use as well as a separate strapless category, oh and water state ability level and if the rider is wearing polarised sunglasses
I fully realize that some kiters do not have the capacity for evaluating more than 1 or 2 things. But I can. And I will. If you can't, I wish you the best. But understand that there are certain jobs and sports that you may not be able to preform.

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Re: Wingsurfing Right of Way

Postby james » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:24 pm

Oh come on

I didn’t think you would back out so easily

It’s disappointing that you don’t hold yourself to the standards you expect from others

Pulling me up for not including vessels in distress or commercial vessels yet accusing me of nitpicking when it suits you.

You make no allowance for ability or competence? That seems odd? Surely that has a direct bearing on ability to manoeuvre? And therefore can re write your check list, a check list/ranking you seem increasingly reluctant to share with us all, for educational purposes you understand?

As does your assertion that you would be sharing the water with an 80kg rider on a 17 when you would be on an 8m at 100kg

You raise a good point for the comparison chart, estimating riders weight, please include that too

Interestingly you make no allowance for depth of wingsurfer? Are they not worthy? Odd given the thread title but it’s clear as day you don't consider them worth a jot as you exclude them from you list above.

Maybe in your efforts to evaluate more than one or two variables at a time you have managed to forget what you placed central to this topic?

You might want to consider what tasks you can PREFORM (your word) while trying to tie the forum in knots.

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Re: Wingsurfing Right of Way

Postby Matteo V » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:40 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:26 pm
3. Beginners - in all six groups have very little chance of changing course at all, and thus they have the right of way. In addition to that, I will also keep my distance so that I am never intentionally get close enough to come into a "right of way" situation with them.


james wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:24 pm
Oh come on

I didn’t think you would back out so easily

It’s disappointing that you don’t hold yourself to the standards you expect from others

Pulling me up for not including vessels in distress or commercial vessels yet accusing me of nitpicking when it suits you.
Back out on what? And no I did not "pull you up" for not including vessels in distress or comercial vessles. The overview of right of way is a pretty short list. No problem with putting it all up there. Nor is there any problem with not putting it all up there. This is a discussion. Do you have anything constructive to add? Or is it all just grief? (You are great for that and I would not want to discourage more posts on this thread from you)



james wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:24 pm
As does your assertion that you would be sharing the water with an 80kg rider on a 17 when you would be on an 8m at 100kg
What? Less drinky, more typie.

I have been out on many instances where I was on a 5.5, and other lighter riders were on 11m or 12m. So I can ride pretty small kites when others stick to being overpowered on bigger kite. But that is not what I was refeering to.

I was specifically referring to when a rider on a 17m becomes overpowered on that size, and I am pumping up an 8m. Been there, done that many times too. Getting the poor sap landed is priority over anything else so he does not die. Maybe he pumped up when it was only blowing 12-14m, I don't care. But I have a hard time believing you have never experienced this situation if you have been kiting for more than 3 years.



james wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:24 pm
Interestingly you make no allowance for depth of wingsurfer? Are they not worthy? Odd given the thread title but it’s clear as day you don't consider them worth a jot as you exclude them from you list above.
Ya got me, I missed that. I would group them in with all hydrofoilers at 100cm, even if they are on a 55cm mast.



james wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:24 pm
Maybe in your efforts to evaluate more than one or two variables at a time you have managed to forget what you placed central to this topic?
The maneuverability capability of windsurfers. No I did not forget. But thanks for bring that up after going a bit off on a tangent. Now that is cleared up, any thoughts on the maneuverability and thus right of way regarding wingsurfers?

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Re: Wingsurfing Right of Way

Postby james » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:14 pm

So I am the one that’s been dinking? Yet you can’t make up your mind if it’s windsurfers or wingsurfers this is about?

You have suggested iriejohn is drunk, say the same about me too? Why is that? I mean it’s a strange assumption to make, is it a bit too close to looking in the mirror so you are deflecting from what you see looking back at you?

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Re: Wingsurfing Right of Way

Postby knotwindy » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:38 pm

MIB
Don’t start nothin’, won’t be nothin’.

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Re: Wingsurfing Right of Way

Postby Jfoil » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:11 am

I think windsurfers and Kiters in general, don’t expect to see someone coming from upwind straight down.

I feel that kiting I am the most maneuverable, then Windsurfing then wing-surfing, then paddling then OC 1 or canoes


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