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Surviving a death loop

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sergei Scotland
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Surviving a death loop

Postby sergei Scotland » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:40 am

This video (there also is also no 2)shows a way to stop a death loop of the "lines cought under the hook" variety :
https://youtu.be/naFKEWEHn6k
Had this happen to me last week in shallow water and luckily plenty of sandy beach.
Originally problem started when I was fell on top of the slack lines going downwind too much. Was worried about wraps as I fell, stood up and kite made first biggest loop as it was relatively high.
Released CL and was still being dragged (probably with less power after releasing) by looping kite on the water until got to the sand and managed to have a look at the hook. Some lines were caught under the hook. Not sure how many. Because kite looped about 10 times by this time all lines were twisted together so was hard to tell.
On the beach I grabbed a steering line - probably the one under less tension like in the video - and pulled. I think kite stalled in the manner shown in the video but somehow got into another loop in a few seconds and I dropped the line again as was afraid to lose a finger I guess.
Kite looped another couple of times and eventually I was able to slide the cought lines off the hook.
Question:
The technique shown in video seems to work for him - is this technique a way to go?
I think it kind of worked for me too. May be had I been able to hold the lower tension line without dropping it I would get control sooner? Taking lines off the hook under some tension was tricky and one of my fingers got caught under the hook I think and got dislocated. Luckily I still have my finger with me! 😊
Anyway - what is best tactics for this particular kind of death loop in your experience? Knife?

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Re: Surviving a death loop

Postby PabloQ » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:19 am

Dear, First of all I think that to get out of a problem is to know how to recognize it. Many situations of risk can arise in the kite and I always thought that the best solution is to become mentally aware beforehand and become aware of safety in sports.
Knowing what can happen and planning the best output, gives you a clearer picture when things happen.
When the situation is critical, I think that evaluating the damage to the equipment is secondary, first there is the physical integrity and then everything else.
I think that as you have raised the issue the option to take in your case is knife. First by the emergency and the consequences that can happen, then because you yourself have considered the physical damage to your hands. I mean, if you considered it, I think it was serious. So, what's more, your health or kite?
In seconds everything can change, the best in the world, I'm about to say goodbye to this world ... :lol: then the measures have to be quick and at the lowest cost ... to your health, of course
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sergei Scotland (Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:58 pm)
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Re: Surviving a death loop

Postby mede » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:58 am

Are you ever unhooking?
If not, get a hookless setup (eg slider rope with stainless steel ring).
Like this, you avoid the issue with tangling lines on hook systemically.
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sergei Scotland (Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:58 pm)
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Beardytello
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Re: Surviving a death loop

Postby Beardytello » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:25 am

This actually saved me the other day.

Not a death loop as such but I used the same technique. Got myself in a stupid situation with a partially deflated downed kite, I was drifting in and got a bit tangled on a "reef" of sorts, next thing I have my leg pressed against a column shaped rock with a steering line around it and the kite partially powered up! I thought it was going to slice my leg clean off lol! I just thought absolutely not and pulled in on the steering line as hard as I could, brought the kite over to me on it's side and I just had a little rest lol!
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sergei Scotland (Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:49 pm)
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Re: Surviving a death loop

Postby edt » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:48 pm

sergei Scotland wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:40 am

Anyway - what is best tactics for this particular kind of death loop in your experience? Knife?
1) immediately use the QR before it has a chance to tangle on your spreader 2) full release 3) grab your harness release and undo the harness, 4) if nothing else works knife.

Don't pull lines once it gets above 20 knots, kite is just too powered. Kites are cheap to sew they are just fabric just let it go make sure there's no tourists downwind of you.
Last edited by edt on Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sergei Scotland (Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:05 pm)
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PabloQ
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Re: Surviving a death loop

Postby PabloQ » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:56 pm

edt wrote:3) grab your harness release and undo the harness
it seems unlikely to execute that if you are being dragged by uncontrolled kiteloops

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edt
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Re: Surviving a death loop

Postby edt » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:57 pm

PabloQ wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:56 pm
edt wrote:3) grab your harness release and undo the harness
it seems unlikely to execute that if you are being dragged by uncontrolled kiteloops
Yeah I know it's rough when the lines wrap around your spreader. I always figured wriggling out of your harness is easier than using the knife. I'v been in a bunch of deathloops and know how it feels to get teabagged.

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Re: Surviving a death loop

Postby iriejohn » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:00 pm

mede wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:58 am
Are you ever unhooking?
If not, get a hookless setup (eg slider rope with stainless steel ring).
Like this, you avoid the issue with tangling lines on hook systemically.
^ This.
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sergei Scotland (Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:02 pm)
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Herman
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Re: Surviving a death loop

Postby Herman » Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:34 pm

On the prevention theme as well as eradicating the hook and anything else that can tangle think about what you are doing with the bar.during a crash. If you are so off balance or disoriented that you cannot control the kite why are you still holding onto the bar? In this type of crash it is often better to release the bar; no unwanted steering inputs, less power in the kite and less likely to get a bar hook up. Your arms are also available for protection duties and both hands are available to QR. Of course this does not apply if it is a controlled crash where you are keeping the kite flying.

It does mean you have to overcome the falling monkey instinct - the one to watch for if you are trying to rescue a panicker from drowning!
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sergei Scotland (Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:01 pm)
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sergei Scotland
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Re: Surviving a death loop

Postby sergei Scotland » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:39 pm

edt wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:48 pm
sergei Scotland wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:40 am

Anyway - what is best tactics for this particular kind of death loop in your experience? Knife?
1) immediately use the QR before it has a chance to tangle on your spreader 2) full release 3) grab your harness release and undo the harness, 4) if nothing else works knife.

Don't pull lines once it gets above 20 knots, kite is just too powered. Kites are cheap to sew they are just fabric just let it go make sure there's no tourists downwind of you.
Sure, did it all apart from harness release - don't have the button style release if this is what you mean. Obviously nothing helped in this situation.
So my question was what next?
Could not find the knife actually. I knew I had it but 1)it is under my left hand on Dakine shorts 2)not enough practice getting it blind.
So I ended up doing what the video suggests and stalled the kite on the beach. Wind was only about 17 mph/15 knots I think but it was a 12m so pull in the first loop lifted me nicely 😂 luckily I had about 30m of water for soft landing and 300m wide sandy beach to give me time.
Well did some blind practice getting the knife today as might need it again in this life.
There is a problem with knife too which is shown in the video. Knife does not work at the thick depower rope so I would need to know to cut the line near the hook, but I only realized what happened when I was on the beach and could see! As shown in the second video https://youtu.be/SjA5CEzZrTU the the trick seems to work for death loop in 35mph - at least on the water.
I liked the drill of finding a line blind in the first video - once one has the line in his hand it can be pulled or cut I guess, so the drill is probably useful by itself


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