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Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

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dice
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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby dice » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:08 am

james wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:37 am
Recreational gear for both? Windsurfing is quicker especially in any kind of chop

On race gear up and down wind, kite hydrofoil easily

Windsurf slalom gear fastest all around again especially in chop

Kite speed gear and big speed boards, fastest if it’s flat by a good margin
I suppose the best way to compare is using the same board(style). Eg no twintip vs windsurfer. Or both on hydrofoil.

I believe it will depend on the type of race too.
A kite can probably speed up a lot faster, because a kiter can move through the powerzone over and over again.
While a windsurfer probably has better high speed, due to the shape of the sail.
So a race with long pieces is probably better for a windsurfer, while a race with short pieces and a lot of corners are probably better for the kiters.

And it doesn't make sense to me that a windsurfer would be faster in chop.
The kite doesn't have any influence of the chop (except the kiter that might move towards the kite in heavy chop),
while the windsurf sail is straight attached to the chop movement.
So in that case I'd think the kiter has the advantage here?

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tilmann
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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby tilmann » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:36 am

longwhitecloud wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:54 am


i always thought i could go upwind better in shallow water . -like the water pushed back more?!
good upwind angle, too

Image

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby james » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:59 am

dice wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:08 am
james wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:37 am
Recreational gear for both? Windsurfing is quicker especially in any kind of chop

On race gear up and down wind, kite hydrofoil easily

Windsurf slalom gear fastest all around again especially in chop

Kite speed gear and big speed boards, fastest if it’s flat by a good margin
I suppose the best way to compare is using the same board(style). Eg no twintip vs windsurfer. Or both on hydrofoil.

I believe it will depend on the type of race too.
A kite can probably speed up a lot faster, because a kiter can move through the powerzone over and over again.
While a windsurfer probably has better high speed, due to the shape of the sail.
So a race with long pieces is probably better for a windsurfer, while a race with short pieces and a lot of corners are probably better for the kiters.

And it doesn't make sense to me that a windsurfer would be faster in chop.
The kite doesn't have any influence of the chop (except the kiter that might move towards the kite in heavy chop),
while the windsurf sail is straight attached to the chop movement.
So in that case I'd think the kiter has the advantage here?
That’s why I tried to split the classifications

But windsurfers in chop simply are faster, the mast foot pressure keeps the board down an level, the fin is a constant force to push against and the length of the board stops the nose digging in

Plus after 10 years of competing In mixed entry speed events windsurf boat kite etc the kites dominate in flat off shore conditions with windsurfers taking it when it’s cross/onshore or any kind of sea state,

The only odd result has been in very light conditions where kite hydrofoils are fast irrespective of wind condition

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby tilmann » Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:45 am

james wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:59 am


Plus after 10 years of competing In mixed entry speed events windsurf boat kite etc the kites dominate in flat off shore conditions with windsurfers taking it when it’s cross/onshore or any kind of sea state,

The only odd result has been in very light conditions where kite hydrofoils are fast irrespective of wind condition
The other odd result you get in the combiation open sea/deep water/cross offshore wind because in this case you have to overtake a nasty running swell from behind. Very bad for kiters.

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby vela99 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:12 am

james wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:59 am
dice wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:08 am
james wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:37 am
Recreational gear for both? Windsurfing is quicker especially in any kind of chop

On race gear up and down wind, kite hydrofoil easily

Windsurf slalom gear fastest all around again especially in chop

Kite speed gear and big speed boards, fastest if it’s flat by a good margin
I suppose the best way to compare is using the same board(style). Eg no twintip vs windsurfer. Or both on hydrofoil.

I believe it will depend on the type of race too.
A kite can probably speed up a lot faster, because a kiter can move through the powerzone over and over again.
While a windsurfer probably has better high speed, due to the shape of the sail.
So a race with long pieces is probably better for a windsurfer, while a race with short pieces and a lot of corners are probably better for the kiters.

And it doesn't make sense to me that a windsurfer would be faster in chop.
The kite doesn't have any influence of the chop (except the kiter that might move towards the kite in heavy chop),
while the windsurf sail is straight attached to the chop movement.
So in that case I'd think the kiter has the advantage here?
That’s why I tried to split the classifications

But windsurfers in chop simply are faster, the mast foot pressure keeps the board down an level, the fin is a constant force to push against and the length of the board stops the nose digging in

Plus after 10 years of competing In mixed entry speed events windsurf boat kite etc the kites dominate in flat off shore conditions with windsurfers taking it when it’s cross/onshore or any kind of sea state,

The only odd result has been in very light conditions where kite hydrofoils are fast irrespective of wind condition
+1
I practice both sports with wave equipment and use a reliable GPS watch. Sometimes I feel like taking speed runs to see what top speed I can achieve.

In choppy conditions I get better top speeds and average speeds on my windsurfer. On low to moderate days with less or no chop it levels off and other factors such as gustiness become the determining factor. The gustier the wind blows or bigger the wind holes are the faster is kiting.

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby Matteo V » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:51 pm

james wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:59 am
But windsurfers in chop simply are faster, the mast foot pressure keeps the board down an level, the fin is a constant force to push against and the length of the board stops the nose digging in


The only odd result has been in very light conditions where kite hydrofoils are fast irrespective of wind condtions
Windsurfing - most body weight is transferred from harness lines to boom to mast to mast foot to board. Board inputs are made to back foot, front foot, and mast foot. Given that most of the forward force from the sail goes through the mast foot, there are more mechanical parts taking the major forces in windsurfing. Thus the chop/power is mostly taken up by board and sail system.



Kitesurfing - much of the body weight is taken up by the kite itself meaning that less body weight is available to hold the board on the water. In addition to this, all of the kites pull must go through the kiters body. All of the chop forces are transmitted directly through the kiters legs WITHOUT a mast foot and the boom to act as a shock absorber.




Not an odd result for kite hydrofoilers to be faster with access to the entire wind window and higher-up wind.

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby james » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:17 pm

If the quote is down to a perceived lack of detail then yeah I couldn’t be bothered, if it’s because I should have written water conditions not wind conditions? Then sue me..

Anyway it’s not been until relatively recently decent performance foils were capable of sustaining speed not just peaking, the windsurfers were generally faster with any kind of sea state

But speed sailing over a 500m course is different from a generic “ what’s faster”
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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby sarc » Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:24 am

I go as fast as my windsurfing friends but can point a few degrees higher upwind (however, broad reach/downwind they will probably be better than me)

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby edt » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:12 am

kites are faster. We have better wind because our sails/wings are higher up, we are more efficient because we aren't carrying around a bunch of dead weight, and have more efficient wings because we aren't as limited by geometry.. The only way for a windsurfer to win is if the kiter voluntarily cripples himself, like for instance, force the kiters to use twintips and tube kites something like that. If you are into going fast, start looking at the kite race gear. You'll end up on a hydrofoil with a foil kite scaring the shit out of yourself.

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby dice » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:39 am

Isn't the shape of the windsurfing sail better for higher speeds than a kite?


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