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Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

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OzBungy
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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby OzBungy » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:48 am

Yes ... for tube kites. Windsurfing sails are far more efficient in that they are flatter, more rigid and have twist in the head to reduce turbulence around the tip. They're still subject to turbulence from the water.

Where they miss out is that they are at lower altitude where the wind is lighter. It's called wind gradient. Kites don't need to be efficient because we have access to the stronger above the water.

We also have a much broader wind window and can make a lot more apparent wind with the kite moving around the wind window. Compare a windsurf pumping a boom to a kiter diving a kite through the window.

Foil kites have all the basic kite advantages but race foil kites can be more efficient because of much higher aspect ratios, double skins. and a good amount of rigidity from the bridles and internal structure.

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby mbs » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:56 am

There is a group of windsurfers at one of the spots where I kite, and I always go faster than all of them.

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby james » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:23 am

Not wanting to burst anyone’s efficiency bubble but when we’re windsurfers last seen using 21m sails?

Yes that’s an extreme but if it’s 12m kite weather then they are on 6.5m sails recreationally, racers maybe 7.8m

The board to sail, board to kite ratio is so far out it’s not even funny. We use tiny inefficient boards that need a huge amount of power to get unstuck from the water then ride around with 3ft of depower as we don’t need it, sheeted out dumping power in windsurf terms. That doesn’t scream efficiently.

What we are good at is using the extra power and turning it into speed

Most recreational kiters ride around between 16-22 kts if they really push, a windsurfer can maintain 20-35 with out trying, someone on windsurf slalom gear that's decent will be up at 30-35 on flat/small chop and will smoke you

Unless you are on top end foil race kit they will disappear, plus the angles are so different, they can sit on a reach all day long, the foil stuff first go across the wind properly, it’s deep upwind, deep downwind, it’s the equivalent of the windsurfing course race beards. Until a company build a race foil that's actually good for reaching it speed it’s always a compromise

Kite slalom boards 3 fin directional 60cm wide cruise at 30+ and will go well over 40

Small asymmetric, if water is flat is 35 upwards at which point you are either needing specialist windsurf speed gear or in a shit load of wind and a trench to go faster on a windsurfer

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby Slappysan » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:14 am

espana23 wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:05 am
Slappysan wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:31 pm
90% of people I know that do both sports windsurf when it's 25+ knots and kitesurf when below 25 knots so you'll be going a bit faster with higher windspeeds.
Do you know why?
Kiting is pretty fun in any conditions. Windsurfing needs higher winds to make small boads+sails work and allow you to boost air off the waves.

Also some people are fearful to kite above 30 knots.

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby tilmann » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:57 am

wait until the thin high pressure tubes come :cool2:

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby PabloQ » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:46 pm

Dear,
I think you have received specific and argued answers about the speed of one athlete and another. But let me change the angle of the focus for a second.
I think, that for different points, the sensation of speed in kitesurfing is greater.
Maybe because the table has less surface, because in the case of windsurfing, the vision of the landscape is obstructed by the equipment. Also the way of connection to the traction is different.
The whole set makes the speed sensation different, beyond the specific speed.
I've been windsurfing for 35 years and 9 for kitesurfing. From there comes the note on the sensation, the kite always at the edge of the accident gives a plus on the way we perceive the speed.

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby Matteo V » Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:13 pm

james wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:23 am
Not wanting to burst anyone’s efficiency bubble but when we’re windsurfers last seen using 21m sails?

Yes that’s an extreme but if it’s 12m kite weather then they are on 6.5m sails recreationally, racers maybe 7.8m

The board to sail, board to kite ratio is so far out it’s not even funny. We use tiny inefficient boards that need a huge amount of power to get unstuck from the water then ride around with 3ft of depower as we don’t need it, sheeted out dumping power in windsurf terms. That doesn’t scream efficiently.
Comparing flat area of a kite to flat area of a windsurfing sail shows complete ignorance of the obvious differences between them.

Due to the geometry of a kite vs windsurfing sail, a 12m kite is aproximately equal to a 7m windsurfing sail in projected area, though this varies some with other design parameters. And projected area is what primarily determines the power of a sail. North used to have some good charts with projected area noted for different sizes and models.

Taking this into account, most of the time kites are sized (in projected area) very closely with windsurfing sails in any given wind.

Here is a link to an old north chart.

https://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kit ... tes?page=1

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby matth » Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:48 pm

The sense of speed is much greater on a windsurfer IMO....kiting is almost silent compared to WS.

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby james » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:09 pm

You want to turn this into a shit fight clearly....

You say yourself the Kite has massive amount of extra material to produce a working are comparable with a 7 m sail, yet you say I am ignorant for suggesting kites don’t have the last word in efficiently.

Would you like to contribute to the OP or just drag this off topic?

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby AndersP » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:44 pm

Kiters are faster in outright speed records, and in upwind/downwind races.
Kiters jumps higher and have more airtime.
Kiters can sail fast in lighter wind (kitefoilracing)
That are facts as far as I know.

Most kiters choose to use less eficient material (twintips, strapless directionals etc) speedwise and instead get other advantages.

Comparing sail/kite area is simply not a good way to measure efficency of the different sports.

Comparing windsurf slalomboards and even windsurf waveboards with twintip kiting is also misleading.

Compare similar activities is the way to go if you want to measure efficiency/speed or whatever you want to compare.
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