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Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

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Matteo V
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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby Matteo V » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:07 pm

james wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:09 pm
You want to turn this into a shit fight clearly....

You say yourself the Kite has massive amount of extra material to produce a working are comparable with a 7 m sail, yet you say I am ignorant for suggesting kites don’t have the last word in efficiently.

Would you like to contribute to the OP or just drag this off topic?
I was simply correcting an erroneous statement of yours. Off topic or not, I will do this every single time I catch one. That is essential to getting to an answer for the OP, and for preventing the proliferation of misconceptions. The idea you hold that area of a windsurfing sail is equivalent to flat area of a kitesurfing kite, with regards to power, is wrong. And leaving it uncorrected would lead to some others believing as you do.


james,

Just like you, I am often wrong. When someone has the courtesy to correct me, it gives me a better concept of what is really happening. So you and I are similar in this respect. Where we differ is that I am thankful to the person for correcting me where I am wrong. You do not seem to be thankful for being corrected. Think about that for a moment, and ask yourself which approach is better for learning and collaboration.

It is nice that you donate your time on this forum and you put out some very good information and a perspective that is valuable. So don't take this correction as a personal attack. I just want to set things right.

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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby james » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:32 pm

Making up lies that I stated flat area was directly comparable in terms of power production, between wind surfing sails and kites is more than “a correction”

It’s to deliberately mislead and discredit.

Something I won’t stand for.

It is a simple fact that to get equivalent power of a 7 m sail you need a flat area of 12m (approximation based on inflatable kite vs race sail) indicates that there are several “spare” meters of cloth whose purpose is turning rather than direct power production.

I don’t like doing this but is you insist on staying my posts are inaccurate, in need of correction etc here are some facts.

I have windsurfed since the age of 11 I am now 41.tiaght I. The UK and overseas and worked in wind spirt retail and industry for 14 years. I have competed and placed top three in international events in Australia racing slalom,

I am three time British kite speed champion
Overall winner of weymouth speed week and never out of the top three in 9 years of completion there and currently hold the outright record for any craft at Portland Harbour, Weymouth
I placed 7th at the speed worlds in Oman in 2018 and had the 5th fastest time at the event

I build my own asymmetric speed boards and have over 48 kts on my own board
My slalom board design, Rob Douglas now has one identical.

If you really want to call into question my credentials when it comes to going quickly then fine, I just hope your CV is better than mine.

I am equally well aware that Tillman has achieved WAY more than I and as such is far more credible given how long he has been doing it, going fast, building boards etc.

What I won’t put up with is your snide (it’s not a compliment) way of trying to discredit posters who in this case might just know a touch more than you about the subject in hand.

I don’t put this out there to brag as frankly I don’t find what I have done terribly impressive in the grand scheme of things, it’s more that you have pushed and pushed and I and many others who have sent PMs about you have had enough

PullStrings
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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby PullStrings » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:29 pm

matth wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:48 pm
The sense of speed is much greater on a windsurfer IMO....kiting is almost silent compared to WS.
Used to go real real fast on a custom speed needle windsurf board using a 5.2 sail in 30kn winds

Single short swept back fin... deep single concave bottom.. 8 feet 6 inches x 15.5 inches...at one foot off the tail there was just enough width for my back foot

Way before kiting so cannot really compare speed....but good old days late 80's.....yes the sense of speed was intense...fun rush !!

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Flyboy
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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby Flyboy » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:54 am

Weird discussion.

Speed of kitesurfing vs windsurfing? What kind of kitesurfing/windsurfing are you talking about? Windsurfers using wave gear are not particularly fast, but a good windsurfer on high tech slalom gear will be much faster than a kitesurfer in NORMAL conditions: ie wind driven chop. Speed racing in a ditch is a completely different situation.

I have about 20 years experience windsurfing, followed by 20 years experience kiting. In my windsurfing days, speed was ALWAYS an interest, except in (rare) very good wave conditions. The boards & sails were often designed specifically for speed ... not speed as in speed record speed, but sailing as fast as possible recreationally. It was common for windsurfers to drag race each other. This almost never happens among kitesurfers - kitesurfers tend to have different interests. The lift generated by a kite at high speeds is very difficult to control in rough water ... on a windsurfer you just hunker down & power through it.

Kitesurfers have a huge advantage in inconsistent winds due to the ability to generate gobs of apparent wind to power through lulls. I often kite with windsurfers. Overall, I spend more of the time going faster than them, but when they are powered up they will go faster, even with wave oriented equipment.

Matteo V
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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby Matteo V » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:22 am

james wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:23 am
Not wanting to burst anyone’s efficiency bubble but when we’re windsurfers last seen using 21m sails?

Yes that’s an extreme but if it’s 12m kite weather then they are on 6.5m sails recreationally, racers maybe 7.8m

The board to sail, board to kite ratio is so far out it’s not even funny. We use tiny inefficient boards that need a huge amount of power to get unstuck from the water then ride around with 3ft of depower as we don’t need it, sheeted out dumping power in windsurf terms. That doesn’t scream efficiently.

What we are good at is using the extra power and turning it into speed
I must have misunderstood what you meant in this post.

In the first part, why did you reference that there are no 21m windsurfing sails?

In the second part, are you or are you not claiming claiming a that a 12m kite has more static sail power than a 6.5-7.8m windsurfing sail?

The third part does not make any sense to me unless you, james, do believe that a 12m kite does have all of that extra power to "dump" vs a 6.5-7.8m windsurfing sail.

And the 4th part again indicates that you think there is some extra power from somewhere??????

Feel free to clarify this, though I think the reality of the situation in question has been explained.

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tilmann
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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby tilmann » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:30 am

Flyboy wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:54 am
It was common for windsurfers to drag race each other. This almost never happens among kitesurfers - kitesurfers tend to have different interests.
could be different with the right stuff :cool2:

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tilmann
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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby tilmann » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:39 am

available in Germany´s most famous kitespot:

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tilmann
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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby tilmann » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:48 am

Action from last Saturday on the flooded beach of St. Peter-Ording (Powerboard at 00:35)

Last edited by tilmann on Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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james
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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby james » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:06 am

Ok guys, I am done here, account closed.

Well done.

Tone
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Re: Speed of kitesurfing vs. windsurfing

Postby Tone » Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:57 am

james wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:06 am
Ok guys, I am done here, account closed.

Well done.
That escalated quickly...


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