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Beginner with ultra long lines - intervene or not?

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Exal
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Re: Beginner with ultra long lines - intervene or not?

Postby Exal » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:22 pm

PeaBody wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:57 pm
I have said to people before when asking for a launch if they 'were going to be alright on that kite', similar situation to one of the other posters... I was pumping up my 9m and this guy asked for a launch, it was a 12m, I just said "are you going to be alright on that, I am pumping up a 9m" (he was lighter than me), he said "yeah that guys on a 14m" (but the way he said it was like defensive / attack), the guy on the 14m was clearly slightly larger / heavier but was definitely an air-style type rider. I just said ok and launched him, I could tell instantly he was overpowered because of the arm right out and the terrible poo stance... not much more you can do!
I think this depends how you said it to the guy. I noticed this subject is like talking about weight with a woman, approach with caution. :rollgrin:

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Re: Beginner with ultra long lines - intervene or not?

Postby Toby » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:29 pm

Why do long lines make no sense?

Makes perfect sense to me.

1. It creates more power for his 8 while others are on 12.
2. It slows down his turning speed, much safer than an 8 with normal lines!

On the downside his wind window is huge...so if he looses control, he gets wiped ;-)

The question is, if he can handle a kite in general...so above mentioned questions are good and should be asked.

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Re: Beginner with ultra long lines - intervene or not?

Postby cor » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:57 pm

You are right Toby in general, but not with 50m lines. It's a bit extreme. With that king of length, not only the wind window will be huge but kite steering will be very indirect and in my opinion less safe, especially for a beginner.

To answer the initial question: No, I would not intervene as long he isn't a safety issue for others.

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Re: Beginner with ultra long lines - intervene or not?

Postby elguapo » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:06 pm

curious, what is the limit on line lengths where the resistance on lines negates the benefits to that length.

small kites i can see a limit..
but a big heavy kite on super long lines might be like spinning around thor's hammer. (pretty awesome if you can control it)

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Re: Beginner with ultra long lines - intervene or not?

Postby cor » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:53 pm

Not sure, the problem is maybe not even the line drag but the actual weight of the lines at some point...?

Anyway, we already know that it will work up to 100m :naughty:

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Re: Beginner with ultra long lines - intervene or not?

Postby dice » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:27 pm

Toby wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:29 pm
2. It slows down his turning speed, much safer than an 8 with normal lines!
It doesn't slow it down, it just delays it. Which doesn't seem like a good thing to me.

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Re: Beginner with ultra long lines - intervene or not?

Postby Matteo V » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:59 pm

elguapo wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:06 pm
curious, what is the limit on line lengths where the resistance on lines negates the benefits to that length.

small kites i can see a limit..
but a big heavy kite on super long lines might be like spinning around thor's hammer. (pretty awesome if you can control it)
I have used 45m lines on the snow with foil kites. No problem for control on larger or smaller kites. There is a nearly imperceptible sluggishness to the "bow" in the lines created by the wind resistance, kind of like a soft brake pedal on a car. This would be magnified as you approach 100m, but access to wind aloft is often required in very wide open spaces.

The practical limit in water kiting you are talking about has very little to do with the above. Your biggest restriction is how big your launch space is. Also, I desire (to be safe) a distance of clear space downwind at least a few meters longer than the lines. So that means that a 100m wind wind window is just not going to fit in 90% of water kite spots. Sometime I am restricted at less than ideal launches for clear space. Could you imagine launching a kite on 50m lines at a location where you have less than 20m of clear space to the side and downwind? So in the end, long lines are a limited use tool in kiting. Yes they have a niche, but they also have some pretty big issues at most locations.
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Re: Beginner with ultra long lines - intervene or not?

Postby Toby » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:17 pm

cor wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:57 pm
You are right Toby in general, but not with 50m lines. It's a bit extreme. With that king of length, not only the wind window will be huge but kite steering will be very indirect and in my opinion less safe, especially for a beginner.

To answer the initial question: No, I would not intervene as long he isn't a safety issue for others.
indirect???

I am on an 18m kite with 32 m lines...way safer than 25m !

Heavy on bar, slow bar setting and slow setting on kite...indirect as can be...pulling 2500+ tricks....exactly of this being "indirect".

A kite that turns fast is harder to control...one little pull and the loop starts!

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Re: Beginner with ultra long lines - intervene or not?

Postby Matteo V » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:29 am

Toby wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:17 pm

indirect???

I am on an 18m kite with 32 m lines...way safer than 25m !

Heavy on bar, slow bar setting and slow setting on kite...indirect as can be...pulling 2500+ tricks....exactly of this being "indirect".

A kite that turns fast is harder to control...one little pull and the loop starts!
Not safer, but rather a different style.

Some of us like to use a fast loop. Some of us avoid the loop. Fast loops /fast turning can get the kite to the edge of the window quicker on a sustained gust. Long lines are much more dangerous in a sustained gust where the power of the kite is too much because of its placement in the window and time to get to the edge. No question that you get used to one or the other. But also no question that longer lines deliver unwanted power for longer.

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Re: Beginner with ultra long lines - intervene or not?

Postby cor » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:32 am

Toby wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:17 pm
indirect???

I am on an 18m kite with 32 m lines...way safer than 25m !

Heavy on bar, slow bar setting and slow setting on kite...indirect as can be...pulling 2500+ tricks....exactly of this being "indirect".

A kite that turns fast is harder to control...one little pull and the loop starts!
Of course it's less direct steering and less feedback on the bar if you have longer lines.

Not everyone does Airstyle or wants to jump high, Toby. For YOU that might make sense but we are talking about a beginner with 50m lines here. Agreeing with Matteo here, longer lines deliver unwanted power for longer so it's for sure not suitable for a beginner.


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