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Newb 1st time B2 practice

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Herman
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Re: Newb 1st time B2 practice

Postby Herman » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:35 pm

Imho a 2 line trainer is not very useful for acquiring kitesurfing safety skills nor does it prepare you for the shock the brain will receive when you finally attach yourself to a properly powered kitesurfing kite.

However it has plenty of other uses. Use it to understand the wind window, and how to move yourself as well as the kite to keep it in the window. Sining the kite while walking, flying blind, flying one handed. Use narrow grip as well a wide grip. Put a harness line on it and hook in if you have a harness. Spin passing the bar, fish poleing etc etc.

In time you can learn to 360 under the kite, then 360 with kite loop then down loop etc. You can also walk up and down doing handle passes at each direction change.

It may not greatly help with the initial stages of water training and you will still have to train how to flag out etc but imho it is all good brain training that can be accessed as you make progress in the water.

Putting an o shit release on a leader is not a bad idea but I would not make it a priority for a 2m 2 line kite.

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Re: Newb 1st time B2 practice

Postby cunningr » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:09 pm

Herman wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:35 pm
Imho a 2 line trainer is not very useful for acquiring kitesurfing safety skills nor does it prepare you for the shock the brain will receive when you finally attach yourself to a properly powered kitesurfing kite.

However it has plenty of other uses. Use it to understand the wind window, and how to move yourself as well as the kite to keep it in the window. Sining the kite while walking, flying blind, flying one handed. Use narrow grip as well a wide grip. Put a harness line on it and hook in if you have a harness. Spin passing the bar, fish poleing etc etc.

In time you can learn to 360 under the kite, then 360 with kite loop then down loop etc. You can also walk up and down doing handle passes at each direction change.

It may not greatly help with the initial stages of water training and you will still have to train how to flag out etc but imho it is all good brain training that can be accessed as you make progress in the water.

Putting an o shit release on a leader is not a bad idea but I would not make it a priority for a 2m 2 line kite.
Thanks for the reply. Yeah i have no illusions moving up to the real thing, but I think its time well spent as you mention to gain an understanding of the wind window. I was thinking of using para cord to the center of the bar and using some clips to make a diy leader to practice the o shit let go, but not sure it will work lol.

What prompted my post really is when i was looking to see if using a training before a class worth doing, so many opinions I wanted to post a view as a newbie getting into the sport. I dont think a 2m kite is going to teach everything by a long shot but I feel valuable insight was gained. Anyway thanks for the support, I am excited to move into my course now. :thumb:

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Re: Newb 1st time B2 practice

Postby Herman » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:17 pm

O shit handles are nothing to do with the centre of the bar or chicken loop. O shit handles are generally an alternative leash point that flag to a single rear line as opposed to the fifth or single front line, they are made from 2 SS rings. They are somewhat out of fashion with many manufacturers.

Also your bar may not be strong enough for centre point loading and mock chicken loop.

In any case I would wait to you have done your course and learnt a little more before considering making a leash for your trainer. Probably not worth the wasted time of relaunching a 2 liner at your stage anyway, better to use the time practicing flying skills!

Good luck with your course
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Re: Newb 1st time B2 practice

Postby foam-n-fibre » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:46 am

If it is a typical 2 line foil kite then the safety release will not be the same as on an LEI. The kite does not flag, it stays half powered and looping, at least the ones I flew previously. So don;t try to set up a safety release on this, it will not really be the same as an LEI.

I would be surprised if you will reinforce a lot of bad habits in 1 hour of flying the trainer. Getting to know how the kite flies without having to look at, and getting familiar with general handling it is a good idea, but yes, there will be some different things with an LEI.

Peter
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cunningr
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Re: Newb 1st time B2 practice

Postby cunningr » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:16 am

Maybe I used wrong terminology, anyway will forget idea of a leash to get used to dropping the bar. Honestly not sure what bad habits your referencing. Would appreciate an example!

What I have been practicing is holding in 12 position using 1 hand and 2 also not looking. Practice only using finger tips and light pressure to ease into and stay at 10,11,1,2 posiciones. Figure 8 and landing.

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Re: Newb 1st time B2 practice

Postby SWO_kite » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:44 pm

LOL - all this super critical banter! Poor newb is easily confused.

OP: Enjoy flying the trainer you have. I wouldn't worry too much about these guys trying to give out super specific advice. You're gaining experience every time you choose to fly it, maybe not in the form of riding experience, but with regard to weather, kiting spots and general kite flying behavior. You've got the right idea of moving forward in your training with kitesurfing. If you continue to fly larger kites with the same passion and curiosity as you have with your trainer, you'll be a very good pilot in time. That said, until that time, enjoy the shit out of your trainer. Fly it as often as you can, there's no substitute for time spent flying a kite.

For the record, I spent a solid 4-6 months flying a trainer ANY CHANCE I could before I stepped up to a 11m depower. You can learn a lot from a training kite. Some people would argue its usefulness, but who cares! Enjoy this sport at your own pace, no need to rush into things. There's no prize for progressing as quickly or more quickly than anyone else.
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Re: Newb 1st time B2 practice

Postby Herman » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:52 pm

Obviously I am not exactly sure what habits Peter is referring to but it should all be covered in your course and it is not something to worry about. As food for thought I will list a few mistakes that beginner make so that you can research them when and if you have time.

1. Do not keep the kite sitting at the zenith longer than necessary. Vunerable to lofting, Hindenburg and gets in the way of others. (Unfortunately Necessary can be a long time for beginners.)
2. Hanging onto bar and sheeting in with trim strap out when trying to launch.
3. Launching too deep in the window. ( And trying to launch out of the window.)
4. Over sheeting and backstalling into the power zone.
5.. Flying across the window and not Preventing the kite from overflying the window by sheeting in.
6. Not releasing bar and ejecting before the sh1t hits the fan.

Swo-kite.. Makes a very good point too!
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cunningr
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Re: Newb 1st time B2 practice

Postby cunningr » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:50 pm

I did watch a video online today that talked about staying off the zenith. Since my trainer is only a 2 line I can't do much with the sheeting. I watch another video about back stalling as well and how to get out of one. Interesting is the video said to let go which I think is removing power which would be counter intuitive. Been watching and re-watching training videos to sock up as much info as I can ahead of time. Lot of info. I think really focus on being steady a slow movement and feeling where I am in the wind window.

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Re: Newb 1st time B2 practice

Postby Herman » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:47 pm

You only find sheeting out to prevent or recover from backstall counter intuitive because you have not experienced it and you have yet to understand the aerodynamics involved.
Eventually you should be thinking about the trim/angle of attack of the canopy not more or less power. Think of the so called depower strap or cleat as a trim strap which controls angle of attack, it is not a throttle/accelerator. Similarly sheeting in will slow the kite but it will not always produce more power.

Personally I think visualisation and prior thought to be very useful but you still have to experience it because kitesurfing is largely done by feel and natural response, rather like a toddler learning to walk! Other people may say it is better not to over think it. Just find what works for you.

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Re: Newb 1st time B2 practice

Postby Matteo V » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:04 pm

SWO_kite wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:44 pm
LOL - all this super critical banter! Poor newb is easily confused.

OP: Enjoy flying the trainer you have. I wouldn't worry too much about these guys trying to give out super specific advice. You're gaining experience every time you choose to fly it, maybe not in the form of riding experience, but with regard to weather, kiting spots and general kite flying behavior. You've got the right idea of moving forward in your training with kitesurfing. If you continue to fly larger kites with the same passion and curiosity as you have with your trainer, you'll be a very good pilot in time. That said, until that time, enjoy the shit out of your trainer. Fly it as often as you can, there's no substitute for time spent flying a kite.

For the record, I spent a solid 4-6 months flying a trainer ANY CHANCE I could before I stepped up to a 11m depower. You can learn a lot from a training kite. Some people would argue its usefulness, but who cares! Enjoy this sport at your own pace, no need to rush into things. There's no prize for progressing as quickly or more quickly than anyone else.
SWO_kite,

Best single post on this forum that I have ever seen. Very accurate and gets through the garbage without being too critical of others opinions. Something I have am still struggling to master myself!




OP,

Essentially, there is wisdom in both sides of the argument. But for training on your own, there is no question that a trainer is the safest, most cost effective, and useful thing you can do. Sheeting will be something you have to learn later, but personally, I started out kiting on non-depower traction kites. This experience, even to this day, still gives me an advantage to my understanding over those that skipped the traction or trainer kite stage. I often find I have to get an experienced kiter on a trainer to explain the principles and techniques I use with my personal style.

Keep doing what you are doing and come back here to explain your experience when this topic comes up again. You could be on "Herman's" side, or you could still be with more dedicated and conscientious kiters who understand what a trainer kite does for you. There is even a good chance you will go back and forth on believing in the value of a trainer kite. But I can pretty much guarantee that if you go back to your trainer for some more practice even after you can make it upwind on a depower kite, you will get even more out of the trainer.
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