That guy is dangerous

[Pemba]

3. Should safety devices be actively promoted as Matteo does or should everybody mind their own business. Matteo is promoting them because he believes they are safer and because he thinks the government/regulation might step in if they aren't taken up on a bigger scale I think. In the end, without regulation everybody will do as they choose to, which is as it should be I think. Personally I feel that I should be allowed to put (only) myself at risk but I can see that other kiters are really against that because they will inevitably get involved if things go wrong.

I wish that every one has the freedom to do as they choose AND make the right decision. But my main goal is to stop the idiotic mentality of "You can tell that guy is a clueless kook since he is wearing a helmet". How many beginners, looking for some respect as the new guy, are going to equate wearing a helmet with looking uncool? Leading by example is not a strong point of most kiteboarders I know. But just swallowing a bit of your pride, putting on a helmet and helping beginners, and you could save lives BY EXAMPLE. Yes, I agree it is everyone's choice. But don't shame them out of making the right one, which could get them killed because of your pride.

Agreed, I thought hard to argue against this. I thought that you had exagerated or misinterpreted some of what was said before, I saw it more like "it's not a safety device that makes kiting safe or unsafe but it's the kiter", which I think has a lot of truth to it, but it seems that many actually approach arguing that the absence of safety equipment indicates a good or safe kiter, and the presence of it, the opposite. I also find that an idiotic mentality. Rockclimbing ? Toby's likes ? Matteo needs help ? Maybe so. Maybe he's a hypocrite. No idea what was said by Matteo in another topic but is it relevant to this topic or only to Matteo ?

[elguapo]

this guy is dangerous. (to himself)





//reminder to ditch those kite leashes folks. (and learn how to body drag)

[Frank82]

this guy is dangerous. (to himself)





//reminder to ditch those kite leashes folks. (and learn how to body drag)

Real example of what I mean, hands wide at the bar, sunglasses, helmet, booties, impact vest and ofcourse a roll leash. No matter how much safety equipment he will slap on himself he'll always be the 'that guy is dangerous'.

Impact vests when you throw megaloops in 40+kn? Smart choice.
Helmet when riding a foil or surfboard? Smart choice.
Full safety gear while having no awareness, rigging to big for skill, first time in the waves with tons of other people around, not looking when turning, etc, etc. 'That guy is dangerous'.

[Matteo V]

Full safety gear while having no awareness, rigging to big for skill, first time in the waves with tons of other people around, not looking when turning, etc, etc. 'That guy is dangerous'.

This is a perfect example of a simple, but complete, breakdown in basic logic. Let me re-write the above to plainly show how the above statement misleads one into believing that the use of safety gear is related to being dangerous.

"No safety gear while having no awareness, rigging to big for skill, first time in the waves with tons of other people around, not looking when turning, etc, etc. 'That guy is dangerous'."

Both the original statement and the revised statement are true. Thus the use or lack thereof, of safety gear, is independent of weather or not a particular kiter is dangerous. So if you do use safety gear, you are not 'just a kook' because you use that safety gear. But if you do not use safety gear, it does not make you experienced and safe, though some such as Frank82 may assume you are "cool" and "likely safe".

When you do use safety gear, regardless of skill level, you are showing some level of "conscientiousness over trying to look cool" at any current skill or experience level. If you don't use safety gear, that shows a lack of conscientiousness, along with a tendency to put "fashion" and "image" above all else.

Bet I take some more flak for pointing out the obvious, mostly because many here can't see the obvious.

[knotwindy]

What’s obvious is you have made your mind up and that’s that.
What’s obvious is you will not change it without ‘provable facts’ regardless of the truth(no, they are not always the same thing).
What’s obvious is they are dangerous in different ways and for different reasons. They are only similar, not equivalent.
Without gear has very little to no idea of the dangerous situation possible. With gear knows there is possible danger but radically misjudged or ignores it. Different problems requiring different solutions. Obviously.

[Matteo V]

What’s obvious is you have made your mind up and that’s that.
What’s obvious is you will not change it without ‘provable facts’ regardless of the truth(no, they are not always the same thing).

If something has been logically proven, when is the opposite actually the "truth" or a "fact"?

Remember, what I have proved is the independence of safety gear use and how dangerous a kiter is.

.......They are only similar, not equivalent.

........With gear knows there is possible danger but radically misjudged or ignores it. Different problems requiring different solutions......

Again, the proof shows that they are not "similar", but rather specifically independent.

I can eliminate the safety gear from your statement too:

"Without gear knows there is possible danger but radically misjudged or ignored it."

The safety gear indicates acknowldgement of the danger to at least some degree. Lack thereof indicates either ignorance of it, or willful denial of the danger(lying to themselves).

What’s obvious is they are dangerous in different ways and for different reasons.

Maybe you are referring to some safety gear not being safe in certain situations, such as impropperly fitting helmets or board leash use where it is not justified by conditions?

[Frank82]

Full safety gear while having no awareness, rigging to big for skill, first time in the waves with tons of other people around, not looking when turning, etc, etc. 'That guy is dangerous'.

This is a perfect example of a simple, but complete, breakdown in basic logic. Let me re-write the above to plainly show how the above statement misleads one into believing that the use of safety gear is related to being dangerous.

"No safety gear while having no awareness, rigging to big for skill, first time in the waves with tons of other people around, not looking when turning, etc, etc. 'That guy is dangerous'."

Both the original statement and the revised statement are true. Thus the use or lack thereof, of safety gear, is independent of weather or not a particular kiter is dangerous. So if you do use safety gear, you are not 'just a kook' because you use that safety gear. But if you do not use safety gear, it does not make you experienced and safe, though some such as Frank82 may assume you are "cool" and "likely safe".

When you do use safety gear, regardless of skill level, you are showing some level of "conscientiousness over trying to look cool" at any current skill or experience level. If you don't use safety gear, that shows a lack of conscientiousness, along with a tendency to put "fashion" and "image" above all else.

Bet I take some more flak for pointing out the obvious, mostly because many here can't see the obvious.

The point is that by far the most important part about being safe while kiting is having awareness, common sense, skills that match the conditions. Safety gear can increase safety but also create a false sense of security (like the guy in the picture). As you might have read I do think safety gear has it's place in kiting, it's up to everybody themselves to determine what they will wear.

[Pemba]

Full safety gear while having no awareness, rigging to big for skill, first time in the waves with tons of other people around, not looking when turning, etc, etc. 'That guy is dangerous'.

This is a perfect example of a simple, but complete, breakdown in basic logic. Let me re-write the above to plainly show how the above statement misleads one into believing that the use of safety gear is related to being dangerous.

"No safety gear while having no awareness, rigging to big for skill, first time in the waves with tons of other people around, not looking when turning, etc, etc. 'That guy is dangerous'."

Both the original statement and the revised statement are true. Thus the use or lack thereof, of safety gear, is independent of weather or not a particular kiter is dangerous. So if you do use safety gear, you are not 'just a kook' because you use that safety gear. But if you do not use safety gear, it does not make you experienced and safe, though some such as Frank82 may assume you are "cool" and "likely safe".

When you do use safety gear, regardless of skill level, you are showing some level of "conscientiousness over trying to look cool" at any current skill or experience level. If you don't use safety gear, that shows a lack of conscientiousness, along with a tendency to put "fashion" and "image" above all else.

Bet I take some more flak for pointing out the obvious, mostly because many here can't see the obvious.

The point is that by far the most important part about being safe while kiting is having awareness, common sense, skills that match the conditions. Safety gear can increase safety but also create a false sense of security (like the guy in the picture). As you might have read I do think safety gear has it's place in kiting, it's up to everybody themselves to determine what they will wear.

This is your point. I agree with it and I think it's worth mentioning, even worth stressing in this topic. I think Matteo's main point is that the equipment is being related to being uncool, which is likely to stop some people from using it for that reason alone.

[kgb]

While telling people they are bad for saying others are uncool for wearing safety gear Matteo says on the sunglasses topic that if you pay more than he did for his sun glasses solution then you are a kook as well, ridiculing someone for their choice of ‘safety gear’

That doesnt sound very cool to me.

[dazarter]

Dont know how a very good fitting helmet can break your neck more than not wearing one - where is the proof to support your nonsense remarks?

Carry on not wearing your helmet when climbing ....A friends is not longer with because he died after a rock from above fell on him, which a helmet would have stopped...he was also an amazing and talented climber far beyond what most people will ever become...so think again about your helmet problem...

Once your in your grave its too late !