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Light wind TT board length/width

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Matteo V
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Re: Light wind TT board length/width

Postby Matteo V » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:08 pm

Foils have limitations, including:
1. Prerequisite of good kite skills
2. Expense of initial investment
3. Strapless = mowing lawn or stuck to surface level tricks
4. Strapped = more fun but injuries likely/inevitable
5. Needs water more depth
6. Needs mostly weed/debris free water

LW TTs have the advantage in all the categories above.

But LW TTs have their own limitations, including.

1. Less upwind capability
2. 1-2knots more wind required
3. Requires larger kites (expensive)




And yes, LW TTs are on the decline in popularity vs hydrofoil. But they won't die out like race boards. Race boards had too similar requirements/restrictions to hydrofoils such as depth, skill, expense, and weed free water - all with less performance. So hydrofoils just do everything better than race boards without any additional drawbacks. You can't say that about LW TTs vs hydrofoils. There are just too many niches that a LW TT can fill that a hydrofoil can't.
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Re: Light wind TT board length/width

Postby Shinnworld2 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:24 pm

There is one other point about race boards...... people had them to RACE. Then all racing changed to Hydrofoils (I can't think off hand of any race board events at all anymore?) so all the racers changed to foils......
IMHO race boards were a tool for a job.
LW TT's are a different animal to foils and have a different appeal.

Matteo V
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Re: Light wind TT board length/width

Postby Matteo V » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:33 pm

bigtone667 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:02 am
I see several choices:

Go for a door that is at least 50cm wide and at least 150cm long (preferrably zero rocker) or a large skim board. I use a 150x50 CrazyFly Cruiser and/or skim board (also have some 22 inch wide surf boards that work a treat).

If the location is deep water, get a foil (the ultimate low wind weapon).
50cm wide is too wide if your feet are less than size 11US. Width needs to be scaled with the lever arm you use to hold it down with. Too wide of a board with too short of a lever arm, and you loose control over that edge. Wind range is also narrower with too small of a lever arm. Low speeds in light winds can work with small feet/wide board, but you loose control over the edge if the wind picks up a bit.




And to me and every single kiter I know that actually used skimboards - their light wing capability is a near complete myth. I kite skimmed on a slotstik xxl for a few years and enjoyed the ride. In my opinion, it is the only board besides a wakeskate, that is fun strapless. But the round outline sucks for upwind vs the straight rails of a LW TT - finned or finless. And in all of my travels, skimboards are almost the rarest of all boards to be used with a kite. That serves to confirm that they really do not have any real advantages in LW vs other LW board styles. Still, I had fun on my skims. I just can't justify bothering with them when other boards fill that that niche better in almost every way.

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Re: Light wind TT board length/width

Postby Michaelr123 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:39 pm

One of the guys at houston kiteboarding had a good point about big kites "people who complain about flying big kites just don't like flying kites." I think that's really true, I love flying my 17m turbine and cruising around on my door board and surfboard. At the moment, if I wanted to go cruising with the foilers all across the lake i'd be on my door board and 17m turbine. Although I am starting to learn to foil, and i'm picking up a fsurf foil kit pretty soon, I still enjoy TT, and I have a feeling next summer i'll sometimes be out on a 10-12m with my foil, and sometimes with my 17m and a doorboard/surfboard in light wind.

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Re: Light wind TT board length/width

Postby bigtone667 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:30 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:33 pm
bigtone667 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:02 am
I see several choices:

Go for a door that is at least 50cm wide and at least 150cm long (preferrably zero rocker) or a large skim board. I use a 150x50 CrazyFly Cruiser and/or skim board (also have some 22 inch wide surf boards that work a treat).

If the location is deep water, get a foil (the ultimate low wind weapon).
50cm wide is too wide if your feet are less than size 11US. Width needs to be scaled with the lever arm you use to hold it down with. Too wide of a board with too short of a lever arm, and you loose control over that edge. Wind range is also narrower with too small of a lever arm. Low speeds in light winds can work with small feet/wide board, but you loose control over the edge if the wind picks up a bit.




And to me and every single kiter I know that actually used skimboards - their light wing capability is a near complete myth. I kite skimmed on a slotstik xxl for a few years and enjoyed the ride. In my opinion, it is the only board besides a wakeskate, that is fun strapless. But the round outline sucks for upwind vs the straight rails of a LW TT - finned or finless. And in all of my travels, skimboards are almost the rarest of all boards to be used with a kite. That serves to confirm that they really do not have any real advantages in LW vs other LW board styles. Still, I had fun on my skims. I just can't justify bothering with them when other boards fill that that niche better in almost every way.
I see your point ...... I am 231 lbs with a size 10US foot ..... for me, is a 50cm wide board works really well. I can ride the CrazyFly from 10 knots to 35 knots without any edging issues.
But for my wife (145lbs), she does struggle on occasion if the wind is above 15 knots to maintain an edge on the same board.

We will just have to disagree about skim boards. I had an extra large Victoria (added a central fin), and that thing was magic for me on light wind.

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Re: Light wind TT board length/width

Postby grigorib » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:41 am

I’m not selling my 170x50cm magic Flydoor either. It works for shallows, it works for offshore wind in extreme shallows and they don’t make the size anymore. Jumping with door is a bit funny thing because I usually would ride it with a kite on long lines - and long lines mess up jumping timing, but back/frontrolls on that thing look pretty amazing.
I haven’t ridden it in 2 years but not even considering selling it.

As of skimboards I’ve only ridden kids’ foam boogieboard, just for lulz, but I’d be very curious to hear more details of what size/geometry skimboard would do comparable to a huge door or beat it in lightwind?

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Re: Light wind TT board length/width

Postby RalfsB » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:09 am

I don't think 50cm is too wide, those large twintips/doors usually have footstraps offset closer to the heelside edge so edging is good enough. Also in light winds one does not edge so hard. I have an older 48cm wide twintip (I am 75kg), it is not hard to hold edge even when well-powered. I also have a 49cm wide alaia board, a real lightwind king; when it was finless it was prone to sliding sideways and needed to be carefully controlled but then I added 2 small fins and it became way easier.

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Re: Light wind TT board length/width

Postby sms-kite » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:23 am

Hello,

My 2cents:
I use a big TT for me and my girl so we are a more than 210lbs, and it will still grow up.
I can start in 10-11kts with a light wind tube kite mono in 15sm. I think I can do 10kts with a 15sm foilkite, but not 9kts it is sure.
This time I am looking for a bigger size foil kite to be abble to ride the 8-9kts. But I think I need 20sm. So it is really a big kite and it is not so easy to drive with a girls on the board... So not sur that I am going to do this. The board is a 160*52 I think. It is a special shape make by Thermik Board in france.
When I ride it alone I can do 9kts with the 15sm foil kite. I weight 160lbs.

I think that a good way to think is to contact a shaper to ask him to make a TT for your weight and your wind specifications. A good shaper can make a stronger board with less flex, bigger and lighter for the same price than a TT flysurfer door. I have do it for my specail TT, it cost me the same price as a classic TT and the board is lighter, more rigid and stronger than a TT from a good kite brand.

Take in mind that 95% of the kite production is make for guys between 160 to 140lbs...

Best regards

Norbert

Matteo V
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Re: Light wind TT board length/width

Postby Matteo V » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:22 pm

bigtone667 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:30 pm
We will just have to disagree about skim boards. I had an extra large Victoria (added a central fin), and that thing was magic for me on light wind.
Did you ever do back-to-back testing with your light wind TT VS the skimboard? That was the eye-opener for me at many different locations. Skimboards have a great feel to them and work okay in light wind. But my testing, even testing late in my skin board experience when I had good skills, just showed that a straight outline TT would always beat the Pumpkin Seed outline of a skimboard.

But I have to admit that it is extremely difficult to find anyone that's still even uses an actual skimboard to kite with. Of all the crowded locations I still kite, they are so rare that I can't even think of the last time I saw one actually being used on the water. It has literally been years. Also when I first got into skimboarding (surf, flat, and kite) years ago, pretty much every other kiter told me what I had to figure out for myself - that they are not a LW advantage over a LW TT or wide surfboard with fins.

Can you say that a properly sized skim in quality fiberglass construction has a LW advantage over other LW boards?

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Re: Light wind TT board length/width

Postby bragnouff » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:33 pm

The things that matter in sub 12kts lightwind are upwind, upwind and maybe upwind also...
Once you have acquired some upwind capital, you can spend it in fun ways.
That's why the doors/wings, with max effective rail length shine in these conditions. I used to be a big believer/advocate for those boards, with my own interpretation of that concept involving finless design, and of moderate size (42cm wide max), and CHEAP. Finless for reduced drag, and making the most of the ground effect in the shallows, not too HUGE, cause you actually don't really need it, plenty of extra surface area due to the sidecut outline compared to a conventional board, and it's all about rails bite, glide and twist to track upwind. And cheap, because it's just an add-on to your quiver, for some very specific conditions, and therefore only warrants a tiny portion of your budget.

Had many sessions only made possible with these boards over the years. Got into foiling the last few years, and while it's great for so many reasons, the budget is an order of magnitude bigger, and it doesn't work everywhere. And there is nothing like shredding a buttersmooth slick mudflat.
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