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Should I go for foil?

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Macster
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Re: Should I go for foil?

Postby Macster » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:54 am

Kozzie wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:36 pm
Landing foil kites unassisted is next to impossible without some drama.

They dont fully flag out due to the mixer system. So the flop and roll like a fish on a pier and continue to do so even once youve gotten upto them and sand bagged a wingtip. The waiting time to pack up etc is pretty crazy and i end up just bundleing them up and having to cart it off in a giant stuff sack that we use for tandem paragliders and taking it to a location with grass and no wind at all. Trying to concertina fold foil kites in the wind is absurd. And damn near impossible without a proper tube bag with a few belts sewn into it.

Ive landed paragliders in some pretty windy conditions but due to them being open cell can pack far easier then closed cell foil kites.

If someone would have told me i would have a hard time landing and packing a foil kite unassisted i would have laughed and thought they were idiots. Especially with my years spent packing up tandem paragliders as quick as possible for work and flying privately myself.

I dont even bother trying to pack up on the beach anymore just bundle it up unzip the vents and drive somewhere without wind saves alot of time and energy.

I think the launching and flying not a problem for a begginer. But the landing and secureing in high winds can be quite an issue. Even in 10 knots its problematic but 20 knots forget about it
Lol this was me for my first 6 months of foil kite ownership. Not the case nowadays. I'm on the water now before an inflatable kite owner has finished pumping their kite, or thereabouts. Pack up is equally quick. Self landing is a bitch over 10 knots but I've done it by pulling the safety in winds up to 35 knots.

Anyway, I reckon he should get an inflatable too and save the foil for when he's ready to get into foil boarding.

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Re: Should I go for foil?

Postby cor » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:05 am

Kozzie wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:36 pm
They dont fully flag out due to the mixer system.
:-? :-? Check the length of your flag out line. It might be too short (flag out length should be at least the length of your kite!) if it does not fully flag out.
Kozzie wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:36 pm
I dont even bother trying to pack up on the beach anymore just bundle it up unzip the vents and drive somewhere without wind saves alot of time and energy.
Once you have secured it properly by putting some weight on the windward end, it is really no problem to pack it up properly.
Kozzie wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:36 pm
I think the launching and flying not a problem for a begginer.
Yes, I do agree with this statement. Launching and landing is trickier with a foil kite and takes more practice.
Kozzie wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:36 pm
But the landing and secureing in high winds can be quite an issue. Even in 10 knots its problematic but 20 knots forget about it
In 10 knots, you can backstall the kite and walk to it by holding the steering lines.

In 20 knots... well it's not like you can easily land and secure a LEI in those kind of winds on your own so I don't really see a disadvantage here.

Foil kites do take more practice and more patience!

@gabsoN Yes, going with a bigger LEI for the next two years is a good choice. Likely, it will also be the cheaper option.

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Re: Should I go for foil?

Postby Janus » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:16 am

What is your weight and what kitesizes you got already?

Consider a Kite Skimboard (wide and with flat rocker) as a good low wind and fun solution..

Foil kites are great and selflanding in low wind is not a problem if you know how. With more wind and on a sandy beach just secure the TE with sand every 20cm and slightly pull the TE more wind ward, so it won't flap around, wind you lines. For longer pauses just pack it up, easily done.

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Re: Should I go for foil?

Postby Kristan » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:55 am

Light wind foil kite is a good investment. Better than going for 17m LEI.

But you must be aware that you trade comfort of LEIs for performance. Handling foil kites require practice and some skills that you won't achieve handling the LEI kites. You'll learn how to check and prepare bridles, and how to untangle them eventually, you'll have to learn how to deal with bow ties, how to launch and properly land the kite, and many other situations.

Soul is one of the best options, buuut I wouldn't recommend it for a beginner, since it's performance freeride kite, and it requires much more time to get used to it, than the other kites. Yet it has nice light cloth and overall technically advanced kite. There are other much simpler and cheaper kites that might suit your fancy, such as Kitech FRS, HQ Empulse, maybe wait a bit and get Duotone Capa.

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Re: Should I go for foil?

Postby foam-n-fibre » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:14 pm

Almost every kiter has found themselves in the same situation, where they want to be able to get out riding in lighter winds. Some might argue that foils are better, and that they have a bad reputation for no reason. You would think that if they're that much better without drawbacks then they could have overcome that bad reputation in the last 20 years. I think you will find that well over 95% of kiters have opted for the LEI as the bigger kite. That probably means something.

If you're low on cash then definitely get a door. Boards make a huge difference.

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Re: Should I go for foil?

Postby elguapo » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:26 pm

gabsoN wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:03 pm
Hello guys,

I have a few kites for windy conditions. Unfortunately I'm not swimming in money and I want to get a kite for a low wind. I'm wondering will it be better to invest in foil, because I know they are better option for LW.
The problem is that I'm pretty new to the sport and I'm wondering can I handle the foil kite (e.g. Flysurfer Soul 15m) or I should go for some LEI like Edge 15m or 17m.
Will it be really hard for me to get that foil kite going or I should stick to the LEI until I get more experience. I'm talking only for twin tip board.
the concerns on self landings/brindle mess are valid...there will be a learning curve with foil kite
also big foil kites (like a 15m) will turn slow...there will be a learning curve to that too
however, a flysurfer soul specifically is best in class (imo) for a first foil kite..
just go buy a used 15m soul..and save +30%
i know of a couple decent deals out there (if you are in usa)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Flysurfer-Soul ... SwhqtdcsiU
https://elitewatersports.com/collection ... urfer-soul


it will relaunch better than any LEI in light winds too.
a foil kite vs LEI for light wind should be a no-brainer

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Re: Should I go for foil?

Postby gabsoN » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:49 pm

Yes, It's no-brainer that the foil kites are better in light wind.
But the big question is if me as I newbie can handle the foil or I should stick the to LEI until I gain more experience and then switch to foil. Or I can continue learning directly on a foil in LW.

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Re: Should I go for foil?

Postby Iridian » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:11 pm

Quit worrying about being a noob. You've got an assistant for now so grab life by the balls and make it your bitch.

A hydrofoil absolutely will be your best bet if you can afford it. I learned how to use mine well enough to do gybes to toeside and back in three sessions and I've only been kiting a year.

If you absolutely won't by a foil (which is 100% your best option) get a door twin tip or a big surfboard. I'd lean toward the surfboard.

It'll get you going in a lot lower wind on your existing kites and save you a lot of money. I have a 19m kite and it's really not much fun just mowing the lawn back and forth. To really do anything you've gotta be powered to the nines.

Get a hydrofoil. If you can't or won't, get a bigger surfboard. Then you can start learning directional + strapless and have some fun on those light wind days. If you can't do that, then get a door board assuming you have a half way decent sized LEI (12-14m)

Ram air kites are nice, they are efficient and light but also very expensive unless you buy a pansh kite, which probably isn't good for a noob. But enough wind to get you moving on a standard twin tip is plenty to hold up a normal LEI.

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Re: Should I go for foil?

Postby elguapo » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:27 pm

gabsoN wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:49 pm
Yes, It's no-brainer that the foil kites are better in light wind.
But the big question is if me as I newbie can handle the foil or I should stick the to LEI until I gain more experience and then switch to foil. Or I can continue learning directly on a foil in LW.

this may be more helpful for you..

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffboss/2 ... 3dfb21be5a




tldr version: you're thinking too much...
either do it... or don't.
either way is ok
:)
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Re: Should I go for foil?

Postby Kristan » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:52 pm

gabsoN wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:49 pm
Yes, It's no-brainer that the foil kites are better in light wind.
But the big question is if me as I newbie can handle the foil or I should stick the to LEI until I gain more experience and then switch to foil. Or I can continue learning directly on a foil in LW.
It's more about confident level of riding, rather than handling the kite. You'll have to relearn how to ride a bit when you'll get a foil kite, but at least you'll have some basis. At least you should not fall a lot and not drop the kite on the water all the time. If you feel confident enough in your riding skills then you could switch to foil kite. The rest you'll have to learn anew anyway, sooner or later, staying with LEI won't be beneficial in handling the complex bridle system, for example.


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