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High Y Bars suck, Duotone, Core, Fone shame shame shame

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Iridian
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High Y Bars suck, Duotone, Core, Fone shame shame shame

Postby Iridian » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:57 am

High Y bars suck in every single way. There is zero upsides to having a high y bar.

However, there are plenty of downsides.

1. Difficulty of relaunch:
Without being able to pull the opposing frontline, relaunches with high y bars are extra shitty.

2. Reduced Safety of drift launch:
When drift launching, you can't let out the kite hand over hand down a frontline, increasing the chances of getting fucked.

3. Reduced ability to self land:
Without being able to pull the upper frontline, it is harder to self-land a kite.

4. Reduced ability to drift land.
Without the ability to pull a frontline, it's much much harder to drift land a kite.

5. Reduced front line swivel load.
V splitters make it easier to swivel the bar, removing twists and improving safety.

6. No handy grip.
V spreaders are a super handy way to grab a kite when it's backstalling.

And don't come in here with your shitty mini-fifth line bullshit. Mini-fifth lines suck ass too, unsafe garbage 'safety' system.

Change your bars to V spreaders that don't suck ass.

Special call out to DUOTONE. GET SOME LINES THAT DON'T SUCK.





P.S. Anyone want some cheap 2016 bandits? according to the kite mag, they are the best kites LMAO.

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Re: High Y Bars suck, Duotone, Core, Fone SHAME SHAME SHAME

Postby grigorib » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:04 am

Iridian wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:57 am
High Y bars suck in every single way...
Except sucking literally. The relief is they not only suck in every single way but also in many ways at once.

Besides safety risks (self-launch/landing and relaunch) how about high-Y bars require specialized line set where power lines and steering lines are not of same length. Buying replacement line sets becomes special kind of fun

Overall worse things happened and remained in our dark past. We used to burn people alive as one simple example and aspirin was being prescribed for hemophilia

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Re: High Y Bars suck, Duotone, Core, Fone SHAME SHAME SHAME

Postby Craz Z » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:35 am

Unfortunately this is soley because of lack of experience. hate to say it but low v or high v nothing changes much. all of the above mentioned issues are easily mitigated without incident. I do agree that mini 5ths are worthless and dangerous in serious conditions. (epic bar comes to mind total garbage)

I would say linesets are certainly a bit more difficult if you break one as you end up with only oem options. they are inexpensive on the centers and cheaper to buy a bar if you need a whole set.

relaunch is easy on either one
drift launch should be done in self rescue mode in high winds and or beach drift if strung out.
self land is actually easier on a high v land it to the right and throw the safety or grab the safety line and keep pulling on it til the kite drops etiher way your never gonna get screwed. A low v without your safety thrown can cause a bar wrap while fiddling with grabbing a center if you let go your in a death loop if it wraps add a mini fifth and the chances of this go up even more.

swivels are at the chicken loop just give it a few spins and out it comes safety works no matter how many twists you can see. low v is not fool proof and twists can be put in them as well forcing you to reach out to untangle and safety is possibly compromised.
backstalling is from lack of wind or not trimming in if you need to grab the centers to fly the kite you have more issues then the bar or lines. never the less a simple center pull is fine you dont need to reach out 2 feet to grab the low v.

the duotone lines are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. I've broke one only one in the last 10 years and it was a slack then major tension that broke it. any line will break if left slack then fully loaded. all lines handle extreme loading up to 800 lbs just not all at once on one line with cranking winds. i just wish they didnt smell so bad haha.

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Re: High Y Bars suck, Duotone, Core, Fone SHAME SHAME SHAME

Postby purdyd » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:14 am

I almost always land the same direction so my top power line is connected to the depower line. Easy to self land or when windier just walk up the lines.

But I agree, having to buy special lines or have them custom made, if you can figure out how long they should be, is a major pain.

Or you can pay more than you should for the OEM lines.

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Re: High Y Bars suck, Duotone, Core, Fone SHAME SHAME SHAME

Postby PullStrings » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:06 am

Iridian wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:57 am
High Y bars suck in every single way. There is zero upsides to having a high y bar.



3. Reduced ability to self land:
Without being able to pull the upper frontline
FALSE
Very easy to land
Walk up the center line until you get to a top line and pull kite LE down
It can be done with any kite size with a 5th element bar (12meters up) or a Core bar (4 meters up )
If you can't land a kite with those bars with a 7 sqm size in 35 knots you need to practice some more
Heck if very windy and top line can't be yanked safely walk the lines all the way up the kite to land it
Nothing do you with high Y

Landing kite by walking up the lines is a must skill to learn
Every school need to teach it
Pulling the upper line does not always work but walking up to kite does
Learn to land kite without using Quick Release
Low Y high Y no difference
Don't even detach from your bar when doing it
Stay hooked in and let bar hang down as you walk up
Keep that bar clean out of the sand
Put it on kite canopy once it is landed Leading Edge down
Last edited by PullStrings on Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: High Y Bars suck, Duotone, Core, Fone SHAME SHAME SHAME

Postby Kamikuza » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:30 am

High-Y means you could have a double front safety, and an ATB swivel that actually works.

Means giving up equal length lines and the opposite F/R relaunch trick in some cases.

A previous OR bar had long leaders from the bar so kind of solved those issues. Might build one similar, cos the long throw would work well on the foil board ...

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Re: High Y Bars suck, Duotone, Core, Fone SHAME SHAME SHAME

Postby POACHER » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:07 am

I think they suck too. What are you supposed to do if you roll the kite or invert it? You can't put the bar back through the front lines, so basically limp back to shore and rerig.
Self landing is way easier/simpler with low V.

The hate against Duotone lines is deserved. They are hot garbage. Swapping those fraying, overpriced, rubber band excuse for kite lines to Sk 99 is the best upgrade you can make to an otherwise excellent bar. Oh.... and that swap, keeping it low V took me all of 5 minutes to do.

I'll never buy a kite that requires a high Y bar.
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Re: High Y Bars suck, Duotone, Core, Fone SHAME SHAME SHAME

Postby Da Yoda » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:10 am

Iridian wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:57 am
And don't come in here with your shitty mini-fifth line bullshit. Mini-fifth lines suck ass too, unsafe garbage 'safety' system.
Don't worry, those went extinct after 2017. F-One (Monolith) and RRD (Global v7) were the last two brands that had a mini-5th system. Since 2018 every major brand's c-bar is a single-line system. Core could be the one exception since theirs is technically a hybrid, but it's predominately a single-line system.

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Re: High Y Bars suck, Duotone, Core, Fone SHAME SHAME SHAME

Postby Kitenuovoman » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:13 am

Question for brands....
Whats the benefits of Y bar compare to the lowV. ?? Need some video explain...

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Re: High Y Bars suck, Duotone, Core, Fone SHAME SHAME SHAME

Postby OzBungy » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:22 am

PullStrings wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:06 am
....
Very easy to land
Walk up the center line until you get to a top line and pull kite LE down
It can be done with any kite size with a 5th element bar (12meters up) or a Core bar (4 meters up )
If you can't land a kite with those bars with a 7 sqm size in 35 knots you need to practice some more
Heck if very windy and top line can be yanked safely walk the lines all the way up the kite to land it
Nothing do you with high Y

What you're describing is the exact problem that the OP is moaning about. You have to walk up the single front line until you get to the Y then you can pull the upper line. With a low-V bar you just reach up and pull the top line and land the kite. It's actually quite fun in stronger winds to "haul" a kite out of the sky on a single line.

However, a lot of bars now are low-V with a link that can make a high-Y configuration. With that you can have all the "advantages" of a high-Y with the convenience of a low-V.

Personally I can't think of any advantages of a high-Y that are worth having. There's all these perfectly great kites that work beautifully with a low-V with all the simplicity and convenience of that entails. Chasing micro-advantages with unusual equipment configurations is pointless.

PS I used high-Y bars for 10 years, self launching and landing the whole time. I did just fine on them. Low-V is far better.


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