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Flysurfer Soul 12 safety release problem

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downunder
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Re: Flysurfer Soul 12 safety release problem

Postby downunder » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:06 am

cor wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:14 pm
downunder wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:56 pm
1.3m less should not be a problem at all.
Yes it is. 1.3m is a problem and also explains why he has those issues. It means that your outward wingtip will still be kept into the wind when released which could - depending on wind strength - mean considerable amount of pull.
deanmatuka wrote: Are all Flysurfer bars compatible?
From FS, Infinity and Force Control works perfectly. Connect Control doesn't. You can however also use Bars from other brands like the Ozone Foil Contact Water.
As other riders pointed out, the problem is something else. And the culprit is a foil kite, not a bar.

Many riders this days ride with 17-15m lines or less. With 15m foil kite on 15m lines, that would be impossible situation.

I would have thought we moved from 5 lines kites. At least I did many years ago. Not going back, thanks ;)
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Re: Flysurfer Soul 12 safety release problem

Postby cor » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:16 am

downunder wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:06 am
As other riders pointed out, the problem is something else. And the culprit is a foil kite, not a bar.
When I got my soul, I've tested with another bar and it turned out that 1m does make a difference when flagging out. The kite will always have pull and does shit that you don't want it to do. This situation improves when your safety line is a longer.

I don't care what "other kiters pointed out". I know what I've tested. You instead are just throwing around a theory that 1.3 m should not be a problem without having it ever tried yourself.
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Re: Flysurfer Soul 12 safety release problem

Postby Macster » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:04 am

The ozone bar flags out about 8m to a stopper which prevents it going any further which is enough on the 12m Soul to depower the kite safely.
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deanmatuka (Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:21 pm)
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Re: Flysurfer Soul 12 safety release problem

Postby Tomlutz » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:32 am

deanmatuka wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:19 pm
Tomlutz wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:28 pm

Downside is that even if you release the safety it still wants to fly off, has more power than other released kites and continuously turns and twists. But this is normal.


How do you deal with sticky situations then? When the wind is strong and kite needs deep water rescue packing?
Good point and yes, unless you have a 5th line (you can attach a 5th line to any foilkite) a situation to avoid or to very well train (in knee deep water) and be prepared to. Even with a 5th line deep water rescue packing in strong wind is a nightmare, especially with a soul that holds air very long. For me this risk is simply not acceptable in side or off shore winds on the open sea (I often kite on lakes where the opposite shore is not far, so ok). I am foilkite addicted, but in strong winds I prefer a LEI or only use a Foilkite in on shore winds and stay close to shore.
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Re: Flysurfer Soul 12 safety release problem

Postby deanmatuka » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:18 pm

cor wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:14 pm
From FS, Infinity and Force Control works perfectly. Connect Control doesn't. You can however also use Bars from other brands like the Ozone Foil Contact Water.
Do you know if it fully flags out with FS Infinity or Force Control? From other posts seems that Soul still keeps some tension in the lines? Thanks

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Re: Flysurfer Soul 12 safety release problem

Postby deanmatuka » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:28 pm

Tomlutz wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:32 am

Good point and yes, unless you have a 5th line (you can attach a 5th line to any foilkite) a situation to avoid or to very well train (in knee deep water) and be prepared to. Even with a 5th line deep water rescue packing in strong wind is a nightmare, especially with a soul that holds air very long. For me this risk is simply not acceptable in side or off shore winds on the open sea (I often kite on lakes where the opposite shore is not far, so ok). I am foilkite addicted, but in strong winds I prefer a LEI or only use a Foilkite in on shore winds and stay close to shore.
I hear you. Am still at early stages learning to fly Soul. Only handful of sessions. Will try it with another bar and see how it performs when safety line is a bit longer. If I still find that it wants to fight a lot will follow your advise and stay with LEI's for strong wind and play with Soul in light wind and snow. Thanks.

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Re: Flysurfer Soul 12 safety release problem

Postby cor » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:07 pm

deanmatuka wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:18 pm
cor wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:14 pm
From FS, Infinity and Force Control works perfectly. Connect Control doesn't. You can however also use Bars from other brands like the Ozone Foil Contact Water.
Do you know if it fully flags out with FS Infinity or Force Control? From other posts seems that Soul still keeps some tension in the lines? Thanks
Should flag out fully with both of these bars. My friend and I have tested it with the Soul 10 with both Force Control and Infinity and the Soul 15 with Infinity only. I am also sure FS has tested the safety thoroughly.
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Re: Flysurfer Soul 12 safety release problem

Postby Armin Harich » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:25 pm

If the kite can't flag out completely, it is a problem that the remaining pull after activation will be a lot higher that it should be and can damage kiter, kite, ....
To have additional >=30cm of additional length while flagging out at the frontline is also very recommended.
To use a different Bar is only a option, if you know our kites well and tested the system properly at this kite and size.

As doubleskin profiles, don´t flap with the topsail and have a fixed bridle, the remaining pull is still a bit more that almost all LEI kites.

A additional (B-Safe / 5th Line) help like we have a Viron and Peak with the Connect bar. But at high aspect ratio Kites a 5th Line it don't work nice any more. It will still flap with the long wingspan and you have the hassle of a extra line on top.

I hope, my explanation helps a bit.

Thank you, Armin
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Re: Flysurfer Soul 12 safety release problem

Postby deanmatuka » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:56 pm

Armin Harich wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:25 pm
If the kite can't flag out completely, it is a problem that the remaining pull after activation will be a lot higher that it should be and can damage kiter, kite, ....
To have additional >=30cm of additional length while flagging out at the frontline is also very recommended.

As doubleskin profiles, don´t flap with the topsail and have a fixed bridle, the remaining pull is still a bit more that almost all LEI kites.

I hope, my explanation helps a bit.
Thanks for that.... What bar would you recommend? Am looking at Infinity (M) on 17 m lines, or Ozone foil contact on 20 m lines.

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Re: Flysurfer Soul 12 safety release problem

Postby downunder » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:56 pm

cor wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:16 am
downunder wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:06 am
As other riders pointed out, the problem is something else. And the culprit is a foil kite, not a bar.
When I got my soul, I've tested with another bar and it turned out that 1m does make a difference when flagging out. The kite will always have pull and does shit that you don't want it to do. This situation improves when your safety line is a longer.

I don't care what "other kiters pointed out". I know what I've tested. You instead are just throwing around a theory that 1.3 m should not be a problem without having it ever tried yourself.

You are taking this personally.

Right, this is my R1 11m and Soul 10m:
245E0635-0AD9-405C-BE9B-27C18FF87B80.jpeg
The 10m Soul does not need more than 5m depower line. One could have 15m depower, good luck with that mess on the water.

As Armin pointed, the kite sometimes might not flag out, ie lines in the water might catch some weeds, or might tangle, or whatever. And than we talking fixed bridles as well, so...

If anyone thinks that the bar/lines do not resist water when released and submerged, well than.

One would need to try 100 times to conclude that 1.3m makes a huge difference in exactly the same environment. Impossible task for us mortal people.


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