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Which is better for heavy weight rider Evo or Rebel ?

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Beardytello
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Re: Which is better for heavy weight rider Evo or Rebel ?

Postby Beardytello » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:20 am

I'm a big boi, I inflate my blades to 9psi (which is actually in range for them) but when I had an evo I used to ride at 8psi with little to no drama, I was jumping less back then though.

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Re: Which is better for heavy weight rider Evo or Rebel ?

Postby iriejohn » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:41 am

Beardytello wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:20 am
I'm a big boi, I inflate my blades to 9psi (which is actually in range for them) but when I had an evo I used to ride at 8psi with little to no drama, I was jumping less back then though.
I'm 81kg/1.8m and pump my Enduro V2s to 9-10psi which works fine for me. And agree with a previous poster, the majority of kites I launch/land are much too soft.

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Re: Which is better for heavy weight rider Evo or Rebel ?

Postby Exal » Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:35 pm

Evo in 12m should be fine, take the rebel in smaller sizes. Had my brother on the 12 Evo and he is solid. Evo is a plenty fast kite in 12m if that isn't important maybe just rebels all the way. I was on a 9m rebel yesterday and that thing is very solid, pumped to 7.5 psi but I am only 80 kg.

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Re: Which is better for heavy weight rider Evo or Rebel ?

Postby Dan-at-Duotone » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:45 pm

I just responded to a PM but will post here in case anyone else has similar thoughts. Also, those of you afraid to pump up your Duotone kites past 6PSI... I have not seen a blown LE on one of our kites in years. That is not a challenge, and I think 6PSI should be plenty, but I don't think you'll have any issues going to 7 or 8 or even higher. Our shit is solid...
Also most people have said versions of what I'm saying, thanks for the responses.

Saarm-

I'm not sure your weight really should play the deciding role in this question. In theory you should probably go with the Rebel... A 5-strut canopy will resist the deformation under load that heavier riders tend to put on kites, however I've never heard of the Evo having issues with deforming or collapsing under load. Even the Mono with one strut I don't hear of issues with deformation under load. And with the removal of the pulley this year the designer says he gets more rigidity in the canopy. I have not flown the pulley-less Evo, but I've had some time on the 2020 Dice, which got the same pulley removal, and I can say for sure it's more stable and rigid, mostly noticeable when you are at the top end of the kite, it has almost no deformation when loaded even when fairly depowered.

I would say the bigger question is what you want out of the kite. The Rebel is going to be the better straight-up jumper, it will go higher with longer hangtime, but that comes through it's increased speed through the window, which means it's more likely to overfly if flown imprecisely or when heading straight downwind on a wave. If you are less experienced with kite handling or you want a more all-around, better drifting, more forgiving kite, go for the Evo. In terms of feel, the last couple years the Rebel has had higher bar pressure/more feedback than the Evo, but since the Evo lost its pulleys this year it may have some changes in feel and performance. All the people I know who have tried the new Evo love it, think it does exactly what it should, but I have not had one in my hands or in a consumer demo situation.

As always, try to demo if possible and let us know if you do and have any thoughts.

-Dan

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Re: Which is better for heavy weight rider Evo or Rebel ?

Postby purdyd » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:21 pm

In regards to inflation, I use 8 psi, max indication on the duotone pump. I know one school told me they use 5 for beginner lessons. You can guess why.

I know one team rider who is a big guy and just loves the rebel, I think for bigger guys who are flying the kite in more wind, the weight penalty of five struts is minimal but the canopy stiffness is better so my theory is rebel for big people.
The reason for under-pumped kites seems to be the fear of bursting the LE if pumped harder.
Within my entire career, I’ve never once broken a single kite due to a well pumped LE. Yes, a kite can break, that's not even a question, but the times of kites exploding whilst sitting on the beach are well behind us. Professional kiteboarders such as Aaron Hadlow or Lasse Walker have to pump their kites to the absolute max, especially in competitions like the Red Bull King of the Air where they are totally overpowered. The kite has to withstand extreme stress and the inflated frame has to be pressurized as much as possible in order to perform as intended. The DUOTONE kite pump is equipped with a pressure gauge, indicating 8 PSI max. You can be sure that every professional kiteboarder is pumping their kites to at least 7 PSI, regardless of the application range.

https://www.ralfgroeseldesign.com/blog/ ... kite-right

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Re: Which is better for heavy weight rider Evo or Rebel ?

Postby iriejohn » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:53 pm

Dan-at-Duotone wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:45 pm
... And with the removal of the pulley this year the designer says he gets more rigidity in the canopy. I have not flown the pulley-less Evo, but I've had some time on the 2020 Dice, which got the same pulley removal, and I can say for sure it's more stable and rigid, mostly noticeable when you are at the top end of the kite, it has almost no deformation when loaded even when fairly depowered.

-Dan
Which is exactly why I have for over 5 years only flown kites without pulleys. :thumb:

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Re: Which is better for heavy weight rider Evo or Rebel ?

Postby lindseym » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:48 am

SaarM wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:11 pm
Hey, if someone can help me with some information about it I would really appreciate that :)
Thanks !
Go for the Rebel. It will give you more range and low end which is what you want. All the bigger guys in our area just end up frustrated when they get a kite that sacrifices grunt. I'm continuously shocked at my Rebels performance under and overpowered conditions. Yes, the Rebel is not optimized for unhooking, but as I see it, the overall benefits of the Rebel (range, low end, boosting power) will far outweight the costs of not slacking for unhooked tricks.

Demo both and then make the call. Either way, you will be really happy.

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Re: Which is better for heavy weight rider Evo or Rebel ?

Postby Blackened » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:25 am

Dan-at-Duotone wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:45 pm
I just responded to a PM but will post here in case anyone else has similar thoughts. Also, those of you afraid to pump up your Duotone kites past 6PSI... I have not seen a blown LE on one of our kites in years. That is not a challenge, and I think 6PSI should be plenty, but I don't think you'll have any issues going to 7 or 8 or even higher. Our shit is solid...
Also most people have said versions of what I'm saying, thanks for the responses.

Saarm-

I'm not sure your weight really should play the deciding role in this question. In theory you should probably go with the Rebel... A 5-strut canopy will resist the deformation under load that heavier riders tend to put on kites, however I've never heard of the Evo having issues with deforming or collapsing under load. Even the Mono with one strut I don't hear of issues with deformation under load. And with the removal of the pulley this year the designer says he gets more rigidity in the canopy. I have not flown the pulley-less Evo, but I've had some time on the 2020 Dice, which got the same pulley removal, and I can say for sure it's more stable and rigid, mostly noticeable when you are at the top end of the kite, it has almost no deformation when loaded even when fairly depowered.

I would say the bigger question is what you want out of the kite. The Rebel is going to be the better straight-up jumper, it will go higher with longer hangtime, but that comes through it's increased speed through the window, which means it's more likely to overfly if flown imprecisely or when heading straight downwind on a wave. If you are less experienced with kite handling or you want a more all-around, better drifting, more forgiving kite, go for the Evo. In terms of feel, the last couple years the Rebel has had higher bar pressure/more feedback than the Evo, but since the Evo lost its pulleys this year it may have some changes in feel and performance. All the people I know who have tried the new Evo love it, think it does exactly what it should, but I have not had one in my hands or in a consumer demo situation.

As always, try to demo if possible and let us know if you do and have any thoughts.

-Dan
Why do they put the 6PSI recommended right on the kite? I've been pumping the Evos between 7-8PSI (before I get too paranoid) and they still deform when in powered gusts. It may just be me using them in a windrange with power in a way they weren't designed (10m from 30-40kn). They're mostly fine towards the upper end of their listed range, but once going over it they constantly deform depending on the load.

The Rebel doesn't really have any faffing problems at 6PSI, but I can't hold it much past 5kn over like I can the Evos. Oddly, same with the Mono when I had a 2016 - abit with a lot of canopy flap at the top end.

What PSI would you recommend or what do you pump your own kites?

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Re: Which is better for heavy weight rider Evo or Rebel ?

Postby Teabageppo » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:56 am

iriejohn wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:41 am
Beardytello wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:20 am
I'm a big boi, I inflate my blades to 9psi (which is actually in range for them) but when I had an evo I used to ride at 8psi with little to no drama, I was jumping less back then though.
I'm 81kg/1.8m and pump my Enduro V2s to 9-10psi which works fine for me. And agree with a previous poster, the majority of kites I launch/land are much too soft.



Not sure you count as a heavy weight dude...

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Re: Which is better for heavy weight rider Evo or Rebel ?

Postby iriejohn » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:13 am

Teabageppo wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:56 am
iriejohn wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:41 am
Beardytello wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:20 am
I'm a big boi, I inflate my blades to 9psi (which is actually in range for them) but when I had an evo I used to ride at 8psi with little to no drama, I was jumping less back then though.
I'm 81kg/1.8m and pump my Enduro V2s to 9-10psi which works fine for me. And agree with a previous poster, the majority of kites I launch/land are much too soft.
Not sure you count as a heavy weight dude...
True, I don't. The point is that, for a given kiter, recommended inflation pressures do not necessarily provide best performance.


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