The perfect Surfer - Electric - Car ?

[Horst Sergio]

Hi Horst.
I hope Sono Motors is successful enough to one day export to Australia. The Sion has the features I want, not just for kitesurfing, but for other practical uses such as towing and as a power supply.
I look forward to a thorough review when you get your car Horst You are definitely looking further ahead than many!

Hi drsurf,
yes I think Australia is the right place for first solar electric cars.
Also the team netherland, who has won all 4 years in the cruiser class world solar challenge (taken place in Australia):



now plans to build a solar electric car, already next year, but not in competition to the Sion, which should be a low budget family - worker - van, while Lightyear one will be an expensive long range high efficient limousine:



By the way, sonomotors has reached their goal:
So during this year when the next close to serial prototype is ready I will report about it.

[Matteo V]

Here is a good start. If the environmentalist in the West can't or won't fix the problem that they've created, then maybe the second and third world will just get fed up with those snobs and start sending things back. So how recyclable is the stuff that you separate and put into different bins, or gets picked up at your curbside and separated buy garbage contractors?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... ue&ampcf=1

Again this is just one example of environmentalists being worse than even corporate interests. Personally I would like the intelligent corporate people to get into the environmental business, and give all the environmental idiots to the corporations. Not necessarily a fair trade, but the environment would be much better off for it.

[drsurf]

Here is a good start. If the environmentalist in the West can't or won't fix the problem that they've created, then maybe the second and third world will just get fed up with those snobs and start sending things back. So how recyclable is the stuff that you separate and put into different bins, or gets picked up at your curbside and separated buy garbage contractors?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... ue&ampcf=1

Again this is just one example of environmentalists being worse than even corporate interests. Personally I would like the intelligent corporate people to get into the environmental business, and give all the environmental idiots to the corporations. Not necessarily a fair trade, but the environment would be much better off for it.

Poor Matteo. I don't know what pseudo environmentalist bogey man frightened you as a child. Did they try and recycle one of your toys?

And yes blaming and complaining about someone else again for the state of the planet. Did you know Matteo that environmentalists are not all the same? Some people even claim to be environmentalists when they are not! (Shock, horror).

Did you know that recycling is the last choice of the environmentalist creed? The order is Reduce, ReUse and then Recycle as a last resort. For me there's another R word in there, Repair. (I'm reasonably good at that). Here's hoping the Sion electric car chooses the correct R words in the right order. It's got some lined up already. It's ReUsing an existing factory

However recycling is often the choice of your "intelligent corporate people" because it means they can avoid responsibility for that part of a products life. In my country and many others, the recycling is often left to an underfunded Local Government sector while the corporate manufacturers blithely carry on producing more product of poor longevity as they don't like the Reduce word, especially in the same sentence as the Profit word. Oh and they definitely don't like the ReUse word as it doesn't fit with the Buy word.

You see Matteo I think you've been fed a line and like a good parrot you keep repeating it. I may be an environmentalist but I don't think I fit your narrow, very narrow definition. I have run my own businesses for many years working in many fields of endeavour. Currently my participation in this forum is because I sell and import kitesurfing equipment and I'm a keen user of this equipment as well.
On the Heavy Equipment Forums https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/ I participate because I own and use heavy equipment. You know, excavators, backhoes, trucks that sort of stuff which I own and use for everything from house site preparation to soil conservation work, asset protection zone clearing to demolition work. I even use a backhoe to dig my veggie garden Oh and I forgot, I do a little recycling here as well, with my rock crushing plant. I put demolition concrete and bricks into my crusher and out the other end comes a very nice roadbase or compactable fill.
And in another compartment of my life I'm the guy that sells IT equipment like computers and stuff which I also troubleshoot, Repair and upgrade. (Note that Repair word and the upgrade word is almost the same as ReUse).

So now that you know "environmentalists" are a bit hard to categorise as you do as the evil idiots, and that "intelligent corporates" may in many cases be a contradiction in terms, I'll try again. Matteo what are you doing to make the world a better place? No squibbing it this time, come clean, no blaming and complaining, and let us know you're flesh and blood and not a corporate apologist bot loose on the Internet.

[Matteo V]

Poor Matteo. I don't know what pseudo environmentalist bogey man frightened you as a child. Did they try and recycle one of your toys?

You're right. As a child I was very much into the alternative energy sources, recycling, and industrial waste restrictions in my backyard. Again, little did I know all of that was a complete lie. Alternative Energy was simply a form of taxation of people and government subsidies for corporations that could not provide a viable economic model outside of that subsidized system. Recycling was a scam that was again paid for by taxation, which supported government subsidies to an industry who would eventually just dumped those supposed recyclables into the ocean, while people like you would never asked for someone to be held accountable for that environmental crime. Restrictions on industrial production in my backyard, saw huge increases in unregulated environmentally disasterous industrial production in second and third world countries.

Some people even claim to be environmentalists when they are not! (Shock, horror).

Yes, I agree with you here very much also. And it seems that those who you are referring to are the very ones who set environmental policy for the rest of us. Not to mention the fact that they are never held accountable for their, at best - incompetence, or more likely - criminal behavior. I mean why did it take 30 years for the story to finally come out that all of your efforts to separate your recyclables in bins, saw them mixed together halfway across the Pacific where they were dumped. Again who should answer for this? And when will we ever see them answer for this.

.....I'll try again. Matteo what are you doing to make the world a better place? No squibbing it this time, come clean, no blaming and complaining, and let us know you're flesh and blood and not a corporate apologist bot loose on the Internet.

Maybe you don't get the whole concept of virtue signaling? I really gave you that out before but now you have doubled down on it.

Do you really want to sit here and go back and forth on who's carbon footprint is less? I don't. At least I won't virtue signal myself down to your level. But there's a few on this forum that know me personally. Maybe they would comment on my lifestyle compared to yours. But again, I won't do that as virtue signaling is one of the worst traits that is associated with nose in the air environmental wackos like you. So I guess you have found my actual limit. I simply can't stoop down to yours.

To get just a bit back on topic, I do think the electric vehicle is a great idea, as it is the only way to fill your fuel tank with coal power.

And at last, I must apologize for injecting a bit of realism into your fantasy. Reality sucks, but you can only fix reality by living in it. Continuing on with the fantasy just makes everything in reality, worse. Thank you for setting a perfect example of this for us. Hopefully it will allow others to reconsider the fantasy world they live in with you.

[wedge]

Sorry to interrupt another Matteo rant, but back to the original question...

Just get a used Tesla Model S. Low $30,000 USD. I own an O.G. 2012 with over 100,000 miles and it's still the best car ever. Very minimal range loss (maybe 5-10 fewer miles on full 265 mile charge). It's only been in the shop for firmware updates. New software comes regularly via satellite updates. Never had to change the brakes (regenerative braking). It doesn't burn anything. Very few moving parts. Literally the only money I've spent on the car is for new tires. Superchargers for road trips were scarce when I got my car, but now they are everywhere you want to go.

Join the Tesla party and see why owners are so rabidly loyal.

[HALF]

... If it takes one barrel equivalent of oil energy to produce 1000 plastic bottles, and it takes 1 and 1/2 barrels equivalent oil energy to recycle those 1,000 bottles into 1000 new bottles, then you wind up harming the environment more by trying to recycle those bottles, then if you just bury them.

I don't see your point here, in one case you lose less energy, but gain 1000 bottles of trash plastic(that need to be thrown somewhere), in the other case you lose 50% more energy (which can be renewable) and you don't introduce new (non degradable) plastics into the environment.

[drsurf]

Poor Matteo. Just recycling (oh how ironic ) the same tired old arguments not aware of the change that's happening outside his mind.

Anyway I'll try again, no virtue signalling this time Matteo I promise, Matteo what are you doing to make the world a better place?

I checked this time there was 100% no virtue signalling in that statement. C'mon, prove you're not a bot man, before I install another solar array or get stuck into some more delicious homegrown organic tomatoes Oops was that a virtue signal? If Matteo says it was then obviously it wasn't.

[Matteo V]

Sorry to interrupt another Matteo rant, but back to the original question...

Just get a used Tesla Model S. Low $30,000 USD. I own an O.G. 2012 with over 100,000 miles and it's still the best car ever. Very minimal range loss (maybe 5-10 fewer miles on full 265 mile charge). It's only been in the shop for firmware updates. New software comes regularly via satellite updates. Never had to change the brakes (regenerative braking). It doesn't burn anything. Very few moving parts. Literally the only money I've spent on the car is for new tires. Superchargers for road trips were scarce when I got my car, but now they are everywhere you want to go.

Join the Tesla party and see why owners are so rabidly loyal.

There is no question that a Tesla, new or used, is probably the best value in a vehicle out there. The big automakers are actively engaged in making sure that this reality doesn't gained widespread acceptance. Or rather, they are just desperately trying to hold on to their system of planned obsolescence in gasoline vehicles. But they really know that The "jig is up", and the electric standard that Tesla is setting is going to be impossible to put back in the box.

And again, a Tesla is the best way to fill your tank with coal.

[Matteo V]

... If it takes one barrel equivalent of oil energy to produce 1000 plastic bottles, and it takes 1 and 1/2 barrels equivalent oil energy to recycle those 1,000 bottles into 1000 new bottles, then you wind up harming the environment more by trying to recycle those bottles, then if you just bury them.

I don't see your point here, in one case you lose less energy, but gain 1000 bottles of trash plastic(that need to be thrown somewhere), in the other case you lose 50% more energy (which can be renewable) and you don't introduce new (non degradable) plastics into the environment.

There's a good story to be told here about corn-based ethanol. The gist of it is that in order to produce 100 gallons of corn-based ethanol, you need to burn 80 gallons equivalent energy of gasoline. And that gasoline winds up being burned one year prior to the ethanol which was made from that.

But let me put it to you another way. 50% more energy is not generated from Renewables. Sure it could be , but it is not. Renewables in most Western countries are not even close to 50% of the total energy production. Therefore you have a choice. Burn that extra 50% energy, or don't burn it. So if you're concerned with sequestering carbon, burying the additional 1000 plastic bottles, actually keeps Greenhouse emissions lower.

With everything, there is a trade-off. You have to decide what gets sacrificed. CO2 or landfill space.

[Matteo V]

Poor Matteo. Just recycling (oh how ironic ) the same tired old arguments not aware of the change that's happening outside his mind.

Hope and change, huh?

Anyway I'll try again, no virtue signalling this time Matteo I promise, Matteo what are you doing to make the world a better place?

Yes, you are still trying to get me to Virtue signal and compete with you for being the greenest environmentalist who enjoys the smell of my own farts!

Seriously, haven't you seen the South Park episode season 10 ep2 "Smug Alert? You really should look this one up because I I think they modeled that episode after you.

I checked this time there was 100% no virtue signalling in that statement. C'mon, prove you're not a bot man, before I install another solar array or get stuck into some more delicious homegrown organic tomatoes Oops was that a virtue signal? If Matteo says it was then obviously it wasn't.

And now who's recycling? Isn't the "are you a bot" thing a little bit old? Do you think that anyone who points out reality in opposition to your fantasy, is a bot? And sure I'll play too on this one - are you a bot?