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Problems looping an older kite

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aeg13
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Problems looping an older kite

Postby aeg13 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:39 pm

Hey there,

So I have a bit of a strange question. I've been kiting for two years now and I've got transitions down pretty well. I can ride toeside in both directions and do a carving turn, and I can jump up to 4m.

I've been using a 2019 F-One Bandit (10m) and a 2016-ish F-One breeze (13m). Recently I've bought an older Bandit 8 (8m) for when there is more wind. I've been practicing with adding a kite loop (downloop) to my transitions so that I can keep more speed riding out of a carving turn. I have absolutely no problems doing this loop on the 13m or the 10m kite. However, I took out the 8m yesterday in 24/25kts, gusting to 29, and something strange was happening.

Any time I would depower by moving the bar away from me completely, the kite would not steer anymore. Anytime I would ride towards the kite (e.g. on a transition turn) the kite would not steer anymore.
I've basically narrowed it down to three options, and I was hoping someone here could chime in :)

1. (Most likely) I am used to newer kites that retain their steering ability better than the older one I used yesterday in a depowered situation. I just need to keep power on the bar (sort of scary when looping it...) and time my carving turn better to keep tension on the lines.
2. (Less likely) I was perhaps using too much depower on the trim strap... I thought I trimmed out nicely and was very comfortable riding, but perhaps I should've trimmed so that I would retain steering control when the bar was fully away from me. I'm not sure if I could've done this without causing a backstall when the bar was fully near me, but I could've tried in hindsight...
3. (Not as likely) Something else is wrong with the kite or the lines. I did have a problem with some sand in the deflate valve that caused the kite to start jellyfishing after about an hour of riding, so I guess the high pressure was out of the kite pretty fast and it was a bit of a wobbly ride... Not really great for kite control I can image...

Regards!
John

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Re: Problems looping an older kite

Postby knotwindy » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:25 pm

No kite turns as fast when fully sheeted out. If you want to come out of the turn with speed why are you FULLY sheeted out rather than just enough?
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edt
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Re: Problems looping an older kite

Postby edt » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:36 pm

1 is your answer. depends on the kite tho, 10 year old rebels turn fine even when sheeted out, but an envy will barely move. Haven't used those older bandits but that's got to be it. Just keep it sheeted in, and ride more aggressively when you do transitions. I hated kites that did this by the way, and it's nice that this problem is rarely seen on new kites.
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Re: Problems looping an older kite

Postby aeg13 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:00 pm

Thanks for your input. I'm just used to fully sheeting out because I could on the newer kites, and it feels 'safer'. But what you're saying makes sense. I'll work on keeping some tension on :)

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Re: Problems looping an older kite

Postby prop_joe » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:27 pm

My guess would be no.3 Try shortening steering lines.
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Re: Problems looping an older kite

Postby Herman » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:36 pm

Your self analysis is pretty good but don't put too much credence on the age thing. Simplistically, the style of kite has the major influence on how a kite loops.

Smaller kites of the same style have smaller sheeting range and if you have been using the same hand movements you use with your big kites the problems you outlined will arise. You have to develope a feel for line tension. The movements with an 8m are quite small compared to a 13m.

At your stage you need to develope a different mindset imho. Aggressive over commitment is a safer approach to looping than a tentative sheeting out approach. That includes the way you trim, don't depower/trim in to loop, it will only make the kite loop wider with more power - simplistically!

A good way to practice is, when you have plenty of searoom, waterstart with fully committed kite loops in the rear of the window. Once you have mastered that, waterstart using downloops in the front of the window. With backstall trimmed into the end of the sheeting range, some kites can be pivoted with little power at the edge of the window and then sheeted out to fly across generating power in a controlled way or kept sheeted in to continue the pivot up to complete the loop with little power.

PS Turning towards the kite can also cause lines to go slack and, therefore, prevent control. That is why you send the kite first and then follow it. (Or you can turn across the lines first and then send the kite but this is a bit more technical.)
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