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Covid-19 - How does it affect your kite-life?

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iriejohn
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Re: Covid-19 - How does it affect your kite-life?

Postby iriejohn » Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:28 pm

Havre wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:16 pm
Don't even know what that graph means?

Losing 1% of your customer base over 2 months is hardly strange for a telecom company. I would say it needs a bit more analysis than just a graph pointing down.

Got no love for the current administration in China. It is clearly heading the wrong direction (not that the same couldn't be said for the US, the UK etc.), but I don't get why they should start lying now? I don't believe the country is soon free of Corona, but I don't think they would lie about new outbreaks.
FYI the Chinese administration is a military dictatorship.

Q1. What is the "wrong direction" that the UK heading, and what do you consider to be the "right direction"?

Q2. What is the "wrong direction" that the US heading, and what do you consider to be the "right direction"?

Please be explicit.

Thanks.

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Re: Covid-19 - How does it affect your kite-life?

Postby Havre » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:09 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:28 pm
Havre wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:16 pm
Don't even know what that graph means?

Losing 1% of your customer base over 2 months is hardly strange for a telecom company. I would say it needs a bit more analysis than just a graph pointing down.

Got no love for the current administration in China. It is clearly heading the wrong direction (not that the same couldn't be said for the US, the UK etc.), but I don't get why they should start lying now? I don't believe the country is soon free of Corona, but I don't think they would lie about new outbreaks.
FYI the Chinese administration is a military dictatorship.

Q1. What is the "wrong direction" that the UK heading, and what do you consider to be the "right direction"?

Q2. What is the "wrong direction" that the US heading, and what do you consider to be the "right direction"?

Please be explicit.

Thanks.
Always good starting a post with some good old condescending. FYI I used to live in China and even if I am hardly a scholar on the country I do know more about China than most Johns.

If you believe the political discourse in the two countries mentioned is equal or better than it used to be - then feel free to disagree with me, if you don't what is your question?

I am not comparing China with either one of them - I am comparing the direction the three countries are heading in. Before Xi China were in my opinion heading in the right direction. Obviously still a communist dictatorship based on how we in the west like to define things, and I am not defending China, but also a far to simplistic way of looking at things. Anyone thinking the likes of the US and the UK got proper democracies are delusional. And that is not me having conspiracy theories about the US and the UK, but more that China are not that different. A couple of examples would be how the Presidency goes from one Bush to another. What is the likelihood of that in a proper democracy? 0.0000000000000000000001%? Add the Clintons and Michelle Obama and you see how "government" in the US really is quite different than a proper democracy.

Without making this into a political thread. If someone can rationalise why China covered up, admitted for then to lie again I am all ears. I don't understand the numbers coming out of China myself, but getting a bit tired listening to people saying because it is China it is all just lies. Until I see one of Boris' painted busses I trust China just as much as him and much more than Trump.

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Re: Covid-19 - How does it affect your kite-life?

Postby iriejohn » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:47 pm

Havre wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:09 pm
iriejohn wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:28 pm
Havre wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:16 pm
Don't even know what that graph means?

Losing 1% of your customer base over 2 months is hardly strange for a telecom company. I would say it needs a bit more analysis than just a graph pointing down.

Got no love for the current administration in China. It is clearly heading the wrong direction (not that the same couldn't be said for the US, the UK etc.), but I don't get why they should start lying now? I don't believe the country is soon free of Corona, but I don't think they would lie about new outbreaks.
FYI the Chinese administration is a military dictatorship.

Q1. What is the "wrong direction" that the UK heading, and what do you consider to be the "right direction"?

Q2. What is the "wrong direction" that the US heading, and what do you consider to be the "right direction"?

Please be explicit.

Thanks.
Always good starting a post with some good old condescending. FYI I used to live in China and even if I am hardly a scholar on the country I do know more about China than most Johns.

If you believe the political discourse in the two countries mentioned is equal or better than it used to be - then feel free to disagree with me, if you don't what is your question?

I am not comparing China with either one of them - I am comparing the direction the three countries are heading in. Before Xi China were in my opinion heading in the right direction. Obviously still a communist dictatorship based on how we in the west like to define things, and I am not defending China, but also a far to simplistic way of looking at things. Anyone thinking the likes of the US and the UK got proper democracies are delusional. And that is not me having conspiracy theories about the US and the UK, but more that China are not that different. A couple of examples would be how the Presidency goes from one Bush to another. What is the likelihood of that in a proper democracy? 0.0000000000000000000001%? Add the Clintons and Michelle Obama and you see how "government" in the US really is quite different than a proper democracy.

Without making this into a political thread. If someone can rationalise why China covered up, admitted for then to lie again I am all ears. I don't understand the numbers coming out of China myself, but getting a bit tired listening to people saying because it is China it is all just lies. Until I see one of Boris' painted busses I trust China just as much as him and much more than Trump.
Before I am able to reply to your post you must first define exactly what you mean by "proper democracy".

Thanks.

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Re: Covid-19 - How does it affect your kite-life?

Postby Havre » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:00 pm

Any dictionary would do. Looking forward to your reply.

Thanks.

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Re: Covid-19 - How does it affect your kite-life?

Postby tkachuk » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:02 pm

Not saying it is a short read, but here is an informed, libertarian view and, in my opinion anyway, a decent summary to date of the covid "crisis":


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Re: Covid-19 - How does it affect your kite-life?

Postby UKSurf » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:08 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:28 pm
FYI the Chinese administration is a military dictatorship.
The US is also heavily influenced by its military industrial complex. Infact a number of presidents have warned about its growing influence. You could argue that the monopoly the dollar has on international trade in oil (Pertodollar) is "encouraged" by the US military.
Last edited by UKSurf on Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Covid-19 - How does it affect your kite-life?

Postby kiteykitekite » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:10 pm

So there is another way to handle this situation. That is to fight fire with fire. You intentionally and selectively infect people to build immunity and so reduce spread to those at highest risk in the community. You select those who are least likely to have problems and set them up for complete isolation in their homes, enough food etc, and then infect them. They make up 80% of the population so it shouldn't be too hard. People with kids and say those under 20 or 30 would be a good start. Those under 20 have basically no symptoms. You could try a pilot in a small area and see how it went after a few weeks, while you continue with the normal measures which seem to only be delaying things.

There is many potential dangers to this idea most I think can be minimized, the path we are currently on though is very dangerous too.

iriejohn wrote: Before I am able to reply to your post you must first define exactly what you mean by "proper democracy".
Oh dear this is a can of worms worthy of it's own thread. Needless to say no western nation has real democracy and China does have "democracy" when compared honestly to our "democracy". A real democracy can be defined as agreement amongst the people, not just as a simple vote.... The greater the agreement amongst the people the more democratic something is and the less agreement the less democratic it is. So in western nations, you can find common and majority disagreement on many many things and yet they continue unabated. One example is American foriegn policy, wars, etc. Less that 20% of Americans support this, yet in spite of what any new government or president might say before getting in, on it continues. Immigration? Well it is questionable if democracy can ever really work in a mixed society. People of differing cultures do not tend to agree. Large super states? Like the EU. Increasing the number of people in a nation just increases the number that are in disagreement. It may be that small, culturally homogeneous nations are the only entity that can be truly democratic. That is until world wide cultures seek to blend more. Maybe like is done now with forcing nations to mix, forcing Europe to become multicultural, is the right choice even though it is not democratic at all. To me if forcing something on an individual is wrong then so too on a nation is wrong.

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Re: Covid-19 - How does it affect your kite-life?

Postby StillLovinIt » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:24 pm

I can highly recommend this article, best article about COVID-19 I've read in quite some time. Thanks "dorant" for sharing.
It explains very well why China and South Korea have been so successful in curbing the spread and it also explains why it's so important to implement aggressive measures early on which can be partially relaxed a little bit later.

There are also translations into many other languages (scroll down to the bottom).
dorant wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:15 pm
This article details why the "herd immunity" is a really bad idea, why we should (and could) clamp down, and why it doesn't need to come back.
A little long but very well written.

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Re: Covid-19 - How does it affect your kite-life?

Postby iriejohn » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:34 pm

Havre wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:00 pm
Any dictionary would do. Looking forward to your reply.

Thanks.
Show me the dictionary where I can find your preferred definition of the term "proper democracy".

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Re: Covid-19 - How does it affect your kite-life?

Postby iriejohn » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:45 pm

kiteykitekite wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:10 pm
iriejohn wrote: Before I am able to reply to your post you must first define exactly what you mean by "proper democracy".
Oh dear this is a can of worms worthy of it's own thread.
Havre opened the can of worms ...


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