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What makes the kite "catch" you?

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Barryg101
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What makes the kite "catch" you?

Postby Barryg101 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:16 am

So i've been sending big kiteloops for a while now . Took out a friends bandit and noticed that the kite was able to catch me much sooner than my kite which is an fx.

What actually makes the kite come back up to catch you sooner after the loop? Of course the shape of the kite will give it a faster turn but has it also got to do with trim of the back lines or front lines?


Should my trim be set different or back lines tighter to help the kite reach back to 12 before I land?

Any info on this is appreciated.

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Re: What makes the kite "catch " you?

Postby Herman » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:02 pm

Barryg101 wrote: Should my trim be set different or back lines tighter to help the kite reach back to 12 before I land?
I hope this is a misprint or I am I running a fever. Having tighter rear lines slows the kite and will certainly not help it to get to 12. Before you loop it is helpful to know how much back stall you have trimmed into your sheeting range. For simplistic example:

Let's assume you have a little backstall trimmed into the bar. Now you sheet in progressively to a sheeted in fishpole. The kite will start a progressively tightening loop, at the fishpole one side will be stalled the other flying around the pivot point. Now if you level the bar but keep it sheeted in both sides will stall (remember you have backstall trimmed in) and the kite is going nowhere until you sheet out. This could lead to a rib breaking type crash if you were trying to megaloop!

Note: the end game is to get the kite flying through the sweet spot as you land not just get to 12. You also need to understand what happens when the kite gets upwind of you, there are some good jumping videos on this!!

Regards Herman

PS I love the go for it and think about it later attitude. It is probably the fastest way to progress as long as you bounce well!!
Any recommendations for a good hotel near Obidos

Barryg101
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Re: What makes the kite "catch " you?

Postby Barryg101 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:55 pm

Cheers for the response! Get well soon!

I land most my loops and so far no injuries.

I know how to send big loops and understand what your saying but my question is what makes the kite catch you faster. For example if your outside lines are tighter the kite will react faster and the loop will be quicker meaning you'll have completed the loop earlier giving your kite more time to reach 12 as you land.

If my back lines are slack then the kite will make a bigger arc so it will be harder for the Kite to complete the loop and catch you?

What's the best set up for this? My bar is trimmed so fully sheeted it doesn't back stall at all




Here's some loops
Attachments
IMG_20200128_183450_444.jpg

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Re: What makes the kite "catch " you?

Postby Exal » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:12 pm

Barry, could it be that you just have a better takeoff with the other kite than your fx and therefore more line tension for a tighter loop?

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BillyGoatGruff
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Re: What makes the kite "catch " you?

Postby BillyGoatGruff » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:20 pm

Very nice loop in your picture, I hope the kite is catching you there or you will soon have knackered knees. There are a few things that will make some kites catch you quicker:

1. A “C” kite will loop with more speed, faster climb and consistency. There’s a reason lots of mega loops are on Torch’s, Vegas and razors. They climb quicker than flatter kites (not saying you can’t megaloop a flat kite either) and “C” almost never backstall in the loop.
2. Shorter lines, I use 24m but think 18 or 20m will make a smaller radius loop and therefore catch you quicker, then downloop before landing on the water.
3. Height: the higher the bettter
4. Thin leading edge with a tensioned 5th line and rock solid airframe, think Naish Torch or Airush razor. This means zero canopy flutter and faster climbing.
5.bar trim; should be on full power when bar is against the chicken loop.how the kite climbs is a lot to do with the kite. A “c” kite you keep the bar in all the way around the loop and they climb fast,flatter kites can require you to let the bar out a bit during the loop to get the speed in the climb.

Finally - I find some dyneema lines are just a bit more responsive. I found the super thin Ozone sk99 lines were not as responsive as the standard Naish lines.

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Re: What makes the kite "catch " you?

Postby Herman » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:37 pm

Nice photo. Seems to me you have pretty much answered your own question. There will be an optimum level of sheeting for each set up and you have to find that by feel. Not sure it is possible to quantify but obviously not over or under sheeted. Maybe a good thing that you don't have backstall trimmed in for your big looping sessions but I am happy with pussy loops so I generally have the bar close to backstall. It would be interesting to know if the consistent megaloopers see keeping backstall out of their sheeting range as the safer option. Obviously being able to control the level of sheeting whilst in the air is important and, for me, being able to sheet out after the loop is critical to get the kite moving again. Once I get it flying through the sweet spot I can sheet in again. Each set up is different and the Kota/free style kites are designed for it, and will be nicer for it than wave kites etc. The overall line tension you have when you pull for loop must also have an influence.

PS Interestingly your concern seemed to be associated with not being sheeted in enough and my concern was more about oversheeting. This is probably a reflection of how we trim our kites with me having more backstall, and you having more slack in the rear lines. Different styles!
Last edited by Herman on Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pj sofine
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Re: What makes the kite "catch" you?

Postby pj sofine » Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:40 pm

I think each kite has its own characteristics to be learned,many times not better ,just different.The only problem that I have is when the kite gets under me and the pull causes the dreaded "slack line death fall " I've pushed past that incorrect sheeting and loop radius pretty much. If you've had this happen you know the 2 seconds of foreboding as you hit the deck with no kite support ! :duh: :nono: :-o
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Re: What makes the kite "catch" you?

Postby edt » Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:26 pm

The most important thing is if it catches you at all. The second thing is how fast the kite itself loops. The pivot catches you extremely well but is a very typical medium aspect bridled kite. Why does it catch you so well? hard to say. All C kites catch you. The Torch jumps the highest of all the C kites. Hybrid kites also catch you well, kites like the RPM or Enduro. Like said above the kites with big leading edges have a lot of drag so the loop slower. Also if a kite weighs less it also loops faster. Maybe you have to switch kites? I never rode the bandit so I can't comment on how well it loops. You look on the forums they are full of advice about how to loop what they don't tell you is that the most important thing for looping isn't technique it's choosing the kite.

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Re: What makes the kite "catch" you?

Postby zloilyoha » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:17 am

Barryg101 wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:16 am


What actually makes the kite come back up to catch you sooner after the loop?


Short lines , high V


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