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Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

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Onda
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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby Onda » Tue May 11, 2021 1:31 pm

Just wanted to report here:
I use one of Evan´s QRs now for about one year. Best decision ever made in terms of QR. It works just perfectly. I love the simplicity of it, and how simple your bar setup can be with it (just a simple steel ring instead of a clunky QR for each bar).
What I appreciate a lot: Due to the fact that the QR is attached to your harness, it never gets full of sand (elevated position, never on the beach / in the sand).
And it untwists so super easily and at all times, it is unbelievable. Really ZERO force is needed to spin / untwist the lines. It actually spins so effortless that sometimes my front lines get "twisted" by a wave touching the QR and spinning it around. And this easy spinning is not fading over time (put a drop of oil into the mechanics of the QR from time to time).

evan
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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby evan » Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:43 am

The updated 2021 Seatbelt Quick release is now in stock!



Also designed a new stronger leash with click-in mechanism




Bars with all available options are also added to the webshop: https://www.infexion.eu/product-category/max_bar/
But low on stock due to some production supply issues of the carbon center part. All other items are produced on order when not in stock.

Tomlutz
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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby Tomlutz » Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:33 pm

evan wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:43 am
...

Also designed a new stronger leash with click-in mechanism

....
Interesting. You could use this as a normal quick release, but would need one for each bar (to preserve the push for release direction). Would be even lighter and more minimalitic thane the big Infexion quick release. - Tom

evan
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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby evan » Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:33 pm

Correct, but it needs to be redesigned/sized up the be strong enough. Current design fails at 220kg. Should be enough for low winds, but better have one that can also be used overpowerd.

Tomlutz
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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby Tomlutz » Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:31 pm

evan wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:33 pm
Current design fails at 220kg.
Would have imagined much higher breaking load, as all the metals parts are at least 3 mm I assume. And the plastic part doesn't take the whole load and should only be marginally be stressed. - Tom

ieism
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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby ieism » Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:53 pm

Ordered right away, will keep the old one as a spare in the car.

Fightsurfer
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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby Fightsurfer » Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:38 pm

Hello Evan,

big thumbs up - I quite like all your products! They are reasonable priced and seem to have great features.

I am quite into your Seatbelt QR,
but have some Q:
Its only tested for 500daN static force with your inhouse testing, or is it certified by some technical institution too?
Was it tested against dynamic forces aswell?
Is there any purpose why it is designed for just 500daN or could you increaste the load, with different metal alloys without changing the dimensions?

-> the 80mm Wichard Snap Buckle will have a breaking load of 2300daN, the Trigger Buckle I think even more.
So exp. when Snowkiting and performing a lot of airtime I am afraid that 500daN static breaking load just is not enough on the scale that this is a commercial product sold for an application that has to have safety margins!
Consider climbing and their Falls with a Fall Factor of 2, which requires >2.2kN (EDIT: 22kN!) breaking load to still enable enough safety margins, and you will understand my point.

The 5mm ring only holds 800kg static pull as well, which is not too much considering most power lines are 2x4mm (Dyneema 4mm DePower Line with 1300daN) or even 1x5mm (Dyneema SK78 with 2.4kN) and therefor offer the desired >22kN specs (well, the 2 main lines going for the kite will be weaker again, but your load is partwise on the bar and steering lines aswell).

Long Story short: I would love to only have one QR, and rings on my Bar, and have the one handed "seatbelt" feature, but I dont feel to confident replacing a perfectly fine working Wichard just now.

Thanks for your advise

Ps.: Do you have any thoughts on the SK Bars metal inserts, and why you do not offer a metal insert for your Max Bar until now?
Last question: Can you do higher resolution pictures of your backline trimming? It works with some spliced line/adjustable knot, or how does it work? How do you feel your backline trimming compares to KauperXT Pinxto Bar and his backline trimming with the incremental knots?

Thanks for your time! Hope to support you at some day!
Last edited by Fightsurfer on Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

evan
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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby evan » Mon Aug 09, 2021 7:01 am

With Kiteboarding the forces are not that high that you ever exceed 500DaN, even the new ISO standard doesn't require a breaking load on the main quick release above this value. In fact, if you manage to do get such loads I am sure you will break other parts of your bar, lines or kite.
Tested the quick release in the real world for years now and have not seen a single one fail for exceeding the breaking strength.
For snowkite gliding it is common practice to bypass the quick release entirely with a heavy carabiner, just to be extra safe. But keep in mind that kites are not designed to be aircraft like paragliders so do it at your own risk!

The current combination of PU center line and nylon inserts has proven to be a good compromise between wear resistance and friction. No need to make it more complicated with a metal ring inside the insert.

Here a topic about my backline trim system:
viewtopic.php?f=107&t=2405814

Fightsurfer
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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby Fightsurfer » Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:20 pm

Hey,

thanks for your reply.
Well, I am aware that the ISO 21853:2020 states the breaking load should be 3x the body weight of the User.

But it also states 2.4 - 3.6kN and just says what ever number comes first.

As they clearly have knowledge about the real world, they know no user in the world can weight 800kg. So I dont see why they came up with the 2400N requirement cap!
https://standards.iteh.ai/catalog/stand ... 853-2020#!
But keep in mind that kites are not designed to be aircraft like paragliders so do it at your own risk!
Everyone is perfectly aware that a Kite is no Paraglider, yet, the weakpoint of the system is at the moment not the Kite, not the Lines and not the Bar!
It is the Quick Release!
As the QR is the weakest point, in combination with beeing the ONLY point of attachment, this single point available in the system is prone to accidents (If you wear a Climbing Harness with your Kite Harness, there is some redundancy at your body - and from the Power Lines on everything is redundant too! And they are redundant in multiple ways: They have great safety margins within each component, and each component is doubled or trippled! No failure in your harness would be critical, no failure in your Lines and Kite would be critical. Only a failure in your connection point can have that great of an impact of the entire system).

With more Users of the products, there will be more incidents.
That there are not too many fatal incidents with exp. Snowkiting and big airtime / megaloops in my opinion is only due to the fact of the low user numbers. With more users, more accidents will occur.
With some gear that is only intended for 500daN, the safety margin is not too high.
I have seen homemade readings of the pullforce of a 70kg kiter, exceeding with a jump already 120kg with his cheap meter (that meter didnt had enaugh refresh rate to really show the true peak force, for sure the peak force was more than 2 Gs, more like 3 Gs, so 210kg with a 70kg rider! Thats already 50% of your safety margin that is used with every regular jump).
70kg Jumper:


And here some of user of your Seatbelt buckle, I bet you know Felix by name. He is not using any Carabiner because he feels safe with your product (way too safe in my opinion):


So yeah, your buckle may be fine for many applications - I am just asking if you are willing to upgrade it so it would be suiting the safety concerns of your customers?
And I have asked if your products are certified - or only inhouse tested. Thats a major difference as well, and I would appreciate if you can clear that question?

Thanks

Ps.: And it would be great if you wanna reply for the Metal Inserts on the Max Bar?

evan
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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby evan » Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:17 pm

Fightsurfer wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:20 pm
Hey,

thanks for your reply.
Well, I am aware that the ISO 21853:2020 states the breaking load should be 3x the body weight of the User.

But it also states 2.4 - 3.6kN and just says what ever number comes first.

As they clearly have knowledge about the real world, they know no user in the world can weight 800kg. So I dont see why they came up with the 2400N requirement cap!
Don't get confused by all the different numbers, haha.

Just to clear some things 367kg = 360DaN = 3.6Kn = 3600N So 500DaN is well above the minimum ISO breaking load (with the tested failing load up to 600DaN on my rig) unless there are riders weighing more than 170kg :lol:

Needed also a stronger leash to apply for the ISO certification, need to tweak the new seatbelt leash a bit to withstand 240DaN to apply for the certification. The main quick release should pass the the tests with ease.


I thought Felix was using a carabiner, he is indeed trusting his gear way too much. I already gave him thicker lines as he wanted to be gliding on 1.1mm race lines.....


I did reply about the metal insert, you really think it will lower the friction even further?
evan wrote: The current combination of PU center line and nylon inserts has proven to be a good compromise between wear resistance and friction. No need to make it more complicated with a metal ring inside the insert.


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