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Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

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Kiter_from_Germany
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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby Kiter_from_Germany » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:09 am

nixmatters wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:18 am
Kiter_from_Germany wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:58 pm
knot_moving wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:19 pm
This is just a prototype to see if I have concept right ... still want to hear from Evan if he is ok with me duplicating and using it.
... then will make it a bit longer and be more careful with properly burying and locking splices
My tip:
As a long term splicer, I would suggest to use a narrow wowen prestrectched line like liros dc401.
Just put a hole into center of line, with a malspieker.
Ready is yr safety line hole.
regards
DC-401 is definitely not the right line for the job! It doesn't have great abrasion resistance and after few releases people might end up in trouble, especially with the solution you propose.

Why are you emphasising on 'narrow woven' (I guess you meant tight braided?) and pre-stretched? All kite lines on the market are pre-stretched and with similar braid pitch.
Your right: Bad English, tight braided is the correct term.
The other statement:
To be honest - I would disagree with that.
you don't need great abrasion resistance.
The hole will tear out of course in first safety events - but just until the hole is matching perfectly to the flying line.
The apparatus is not under load, when safety event occurs....
and for the perhaps 200 safety events per lifetime it should be good.

But - I ll gonna make one and let it work through the year, we will see.

The trick, closing /opening the hole just by loading and unloading the fibres leads to much less resistance, when unloaded, than a fixed spliced lock.

But anyhow: great idea to get rid of plastic or metal parts to make a 'more natural' seat for the flying line...

This will give the long term reliability, I would say.

nixmatters
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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby nixmatters » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:51 am

Thanks Evan!

I didn't splice a line in the flagout loop, but did a double loop as shown in the first photo. This loop to loop knot measures 6,2-6,5mm (after my weight applied), but is much more difficult to undo than a standard loop to loop connection. Almost as difficult as undoing a fig.8 knot!

I did a second trial with contrast color lines (photo 2).
Version 1 is same what I first made with the black lines. Looks better and doesn't self tighten.
Version 2 self tightens and puts load on few strands (half) of the yellow line, which may lead to excess wear of the inner side of that line.

On photo 3 - Brummel splice on the blue line - looks and feels much better.
The problem if making this part from one piece of line is that we can't have Brummel splices on both sides of the 'ring'. A closed loop with 2 Brummel splices is not possible (discussed already in another post here)

Any comments?
Attachments
IMG_20200913_081424.jpg
IMG_20200913_084634.jpg
IMG_20200913_091601.jpg

Tomlutz
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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby Tomlutz » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:07 am

evan wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:42 am
It's just a piece of rope with two loops spliced into it but making the second one interlocking before splicing.
Thanks Evan an the others for explaining. I still feel completely stupid and have no clue about the system:

- Are the two loops done on different ends of the rope? If not, how can you splice two loops on one and the same end?
- How do you make a loop interlocking before splicing?

Sorry if these questions are stupid. I do a lot of splicing, but only the conventional brummel splice loop and I am no expert.

Thanks - Tom

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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby nixmatters » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:14 am

Kiter_from_Germany wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:09 am
nixmatters wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:18 am
Kiter_from_Germany wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:58 pm


My tip:
As a long term splicer, I would suggest to use a narrow wowen prestrectched line like liros dc401.
Just put a hole into center of line, with a malspieker.
Ready is yr safety line hole.
regards
DC-401 is definitely not the right line for the job! It doesn't have great abrasion resistance and after few releases people might end up in trouble, especially with the solution you propose.

Why are you emphasising on 'narrow woven' (I guess you meant tight braided?) and pre-stretched? All kite lines on the market are pre-stretched and with similar braid pitch.
Your right: Bad English, tight braided is the correct term.
The other statement:
To be honest - I would disagree with that.
you don't need great abrasion resistance.
The hole will tear out of course in first safety events - but just until the hole is matching perfectly to the flying line.
The apparatus is not under load, when safety event occurs....
and for the perhaps 200 safety events per lifetime it should be good
.

But - I ll gonna make one and let it work through the year, we will see.

The trick, closing /opening the hole just by loading and unloading the fibres leads to much less resistance, when unloaded, than a fixed spliced lock.

But anyhow: great idea to get rid of plastic or metal parts to make a 'more natural' seat for the flying line...

This will give the long term reliability, I would say.
to the red above: I'm very confident that the strength of this connection will be down to half of the line max strength. So if you use DC-401 it won't be much more than ~200kg. When new!
What Evan mentoned above is that his connection (I'd call it 'spliced ring to knot') is stronger than the flying line. And the more the poked through line wears, the lower the strength will be. I'm better off with a metal bracket and a plastic stopper.

to the blue above: I'm ready to place a bet that after only a handful of releases under decent load (safety line running high speed through the hole in the line), the breaking strength of this connection will not be enough to survive even riding a twintip upwind, not mentioning a small jump. Shall we? :wink:

@ Evan, if you have 10 minutes, could you please test this connection on your jig?

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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby Tomlutz » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:36 am

Herman wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:45 pm
Tom

I just assumed it was two loops interlocked but studying the photo it looks like it might be the splice hitch I use to attach my harness runner to the shackle pins I have on my spreader bar.
Herman - thanks. Are you attaching the shackle pin by putting it through both loops (what I assume), or only one? Photo? - Tom

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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby Herman » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:17 am

Thanks to nixmatters for some more stunning posts.

Tom - I have shackles at both ends of my runner but you can only make what I call the splice hitch on one closed shackle. The other one has to made out in the open and then the shackle put through the hitch. Once I discovered this I think I made both splices in the open and put the shackles through the splice. It was a while ago so not sure of exact details, but I recall the dyneema I had was a loose braid and it was "easy", (I ended up putting a core in it to stop it flattening on the pulley runner).

In the photo the tail is the taped end and the shackle pin goes through the bottom hole. Set the hitch by pulling both ends.

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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby Breze » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:46 am

In rockclimbing dyneema sliding on dyneema is a no no , bc of melting the fabric. The intention to make the rig free of metal is good, but aren`t we talking about a tiny steel ring what is saved for this solution.
https://flysurfer.com/files/2020/06/RAC ... fety-1.jpg

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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby Herman » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:44 pm

^^ I share Breze’s concern, not saying I could not live with it as I rarely flag but I would regularly inspect etc. Anybody got some old line for the experiment?

There are a number of thimbles and low friction rings that can be spliced into the loop that would work with a stopper ball. There is also a company that is producing SS rings with a bar across ~2/3 of way up that gives a suitable size hole but they were expensive.

Kiter_from_Germany
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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby Kiter_from_Germany » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:06 pm

@nixmatters:
come on.
peeking a 1mm hole into a line (without affecting a Fibre) reduces the strength by >50%)?
I would agree at EoL.

I, ve just dc401 in my spare, so I will take that.
Perhaps one may use a different line.

But give the peeked hole a try.
My intend is not to overpromote the suggested solution, I want to share the idea:

The tangling of the fibres should give a good load/UNLOAD behavior, keeping the savety sleeve secure while loaded and getting loose while unloading (Longterm stable)
As I understood the shown system, using a sleeve/sleeve lock will squeeze and keep this squeezing even at release.

But one thing will be the small diameter of dc401:
As I use 3mm safety loop and a dc201 flying,
perhaps diameters of safety and lockline should match (so a 3mm lockline could be an idea..)

But nevertheless Lockline idea is genius, anyhow you make it.

Kiter_from_Germany
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Re: Infexion Max bar / Seatbelt Quick Release

Postby Kiter_from_Germany » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:28 pm

@nixmatters:
didnt look to good today with just peeking a line.
Looks more controlled, to use infinite brummel splice.
Made the lockline out of 2 x self-locking brummel, one for the safety, one for a loop.
Tomorrow mounting the system.
Pics will follow.
here the lockline, first.

Detail:
IMG_20200913_201107.jpg
Complete:
IMG_20200913_201120.jpg
Remark:
Made it very short to easy grab one Frontline for selflanding


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