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Surfr. New kitesurf jump app?

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CaliRider
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Re: Surfr. New kitesurf jump app?

Postby CaliRider » Wed May 20, 2020 8:29 pm

Blackened wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 10:15 am
CaliRider wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 6:09 am

Holy shit - you buying a gold apple watch or something? LOL A new series 3 Apple iWatch is $199. It has GPS so you get speeds, map and jumps with the sessions app which is free. Instead of the $700+$400=$1100 it actually costs you $199 to do what you want. :thumb:
A series 3 watch with GPS and cellular is $550 here. I also don't own a Woo.
Where is "here"? And you don't need cellular for sessions to work.

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Re: Surfr. New kitesurf jump app?

Postby CaliRider » Wed May 20, 2020 8:38 pm

So you lose your board and they claim it will be sending location, but your phone is on the board, so how do you check its location? I guess you get someone else's phone and login to check, but what if the board is upside down. I dunno about you, but its not a problem finding the board when its upright, rather when its upside down. And if its upside down, then the phone is under water. No GPS and no cellular signal. Welp, thats a problem.

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Re: Surfr. New kitesurf jump app?

Postby andylc » Wed May 20, 2020 9:03 pm

Sessions App on Apple Watch - good idea, horribly prone to glitching and freezing, and as far as I can tell, completely inaccurate except just for GPS tracking your session. Which kind of makes sense because how on Earth is it supposed to calculate height when your arms are doing all sorts of different things depending on what you're doing? Presumably the same reason why your phone needs to be attached to the board is why the Sessions App is doomed to not be very good.

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Re: Surfr. New kitesurf jump app?

Postby Blackened » Wed May 20, 2020 9:16 pm

CaliRider wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:38 pm
So you lose your board and they claim it will be sending location, but your phone is on the board, so how do you check its location? I guess you get someone else's phone and login to check, but what if the board is upside down. I dunno about you, but its not a problem finding the board when its upright, rather when its upside down. And if its upside down, then the phone is under water. No GPS and no cellular signal. Welp, thats a problem.
I don't live in the US and thought I'd compare the cellular version as it's more equivalent to a phone. The non-cellular version is $360, so I'd still be looking at over $750 for the combo.

If I were to lose my board, then I would've lost a ~$150 phone instead of a $400 Woo. I also don't usually have a problem with finding my board as I specifically bought a bright yellow monstrosity to solve this problem. The only downside I can see is having a big device on my board for me to bash my hands into when catching board offs.

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Re: Surfr. New kitesurf jump app?

Postby alunj » Wed May 20, 2020 9:49 pm

andylc wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:03 pm
Sessions App on Apple Watch - good idea, horribly prone to glitching and freezing, and as far as I can tell, completely inaccurate except just for GPS tracking your session. Which kind of makes sense because how on Earth is it supposed to calculate height when your arms are doing all sorts of different things depending on what you're doing? Presumably the same reason why your phone needs to be attached to the board is why the Sessions App is doomed to not be very good.
Im pretty happy with it. Works and seems to get reasonable jump accuracy . Certainly airtime is pretty close , height doesn’t seem wildly out . It’s underinvested in rho and the backend is flaky . I’m constantly amazed whatbxan be done with some accelerometers and gyros strapped to your wrist . The accuracy of apples swimming workouts never fails to amaze me . Even down to stroke detection. So even waving about on the end of your arm with the right software you can do some amazing things

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Re: Surfr. New kitesurf jump app?

Postby herbertv123 » Wed May 20, 2020 10:43 pm

flysurfing wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:53 am
would you be able to implement in the APP a weather forecast feed ?
Yes.. For another app I've already integrated with Wind guru and I have good relations with the developer of WG. Also a lot of phones have barometers so also changing weather conditions (pressure changes) can be used to alarm riders. I have been surprised myself by some crazy weather changes while kiting, and integrating with live weather services can help with this. In terms of priority I don't expect this on the short term though, but it's definitely on the list!
Zen_Rider wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:22 am
But as your main thing is the app, then presumably one could make / buy a smaller mount, and the app would still work as expected?

Also for comedy value, can you please share a photo of your test board with ""... about 2-4 phones on the board, 2 WOO 3’s and 1 PIQ..."" that sounds cluttered!
Yes, however you mount/tape it to your board it will work, as long as it's on the board. The mount is not that bulky in my opinion, but maybe in the future we can produce a second mount with smaller dimensions.

Regarding the comedy value: I will check my GoPro footage for that and post a photo later on. Actually it was quite compact: I had one big box which had the Piq and 2 WOO's taped on the bottom and then I stacked the phones on top of each other (which worked fine for testing purposes).
Zen_Rider wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 2:03 pm
If you have handle on your board you could use bicycle waterproof....
Good idea, will definitely look into that when the app is live. Though as a 3D designer I was really thinking of designing a printable mount for my phone that has screw holes that line up with my board handle holes.
We talked about using the screw holes as well, but people have to sacrifice their board handle unless you come up with some kind of genius design for the mount :). Would be happy to see 3d printed ideas coming in which can be used as input for future versions of the mount.
Toby wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 2:06 pm
Does the mount have to be on the board?
How about in the lines just above the adjuster like those GoPro mounts? Would be close to your face for better visibility.
Haha, yes. Half and Kitemenn are quite right.

The problem is not so much the orientation of the phone. When mounted on the board the orientation is also changing during a jump. If somebody kicks the board up, do a board off tic tac (called like that right?) the board is going all over the place and the orientation of the phone as well. So one of the most important things for the algorithm is to calculate and be aware of the phones orientation in 3D earth frame all the time. The way this is done also works when you wear the phone around your neck or even mount in into your lines :D

But as being said: when wearing it around your neck, wrist or anywhere other than right on the board a lot of vibrations are lost. This means you won't be able to exactly pin point the start and end position of a jump. You can probably find the jump and guess the starting and the end point, but it will not be as accurate and consistent as a board mounted solution. We did some testing with phones around the neck as well - we found most of the jumps, but the airtime was off by 1 to 2 seconds on most of the jumps. If you don't get the airtime exactly right, the height calculation will fail as well (if you calculate with gyro and accelerometer, like Surfr. does). There are some other ways to calculate height which are less dependent of the correct beginning and end detection of a jump, like using air pressure (barometer sensor of the phone) but those methods are not so accurate as well.

In my opinion based on all the data that I've seen creating something accurate (as possible) and consistent is only possible when mounting the phone on the board. This is my current view on it, but I'll definitely research and experiment more with chest 'mounted' phones. If there is interest I can do a video on more of the tech. details, after the app is live off course

I will soon publish a video on accuracy and consistency on Youtube. My new 11 meter high telescopic pole arrived today, this weekend we're going to jump with the app in a test setup with the pole.
CaliRider wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:38 pm
So you lose your board and they claim it will be sending location, but your phone is on the board, so how do you check its location? I guess you get someone else's phone and login to check, but what if the board is upside down. I dunno about you, but its not a problem finding the board when its upright, rather when its upside down. And if its upside down, then the phone is under water. No GPS and no cellular signal. Welp, thats a problem.
Fair point. If the board is upside down it probably won't send GPS, till it wash up at the shore. Regarding checking the boards location: every user get's it's own (private) tracking URL which can be used to quickly look up location of the board (on another phone, computer, or whatever has a browser).
Last edited by herbertv123 on Thu May 21, 2020 8:44 am, edited 3 times in total.

BenBen
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Re: Surfr. New kitesurf jump app?

Postby BenBen » Wed May 20, 2020 11:02 pm

joriws wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 12:51 pm
Zen_Rider wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:22 am
My only initial worry was the size of the mount, if it fits the largest smartphones it must be fairly chunky, and I'm not in love with sticking something big, to my mint condition sexy carbon board, especially as I have a relatively small phone.
If you have handle on your board you could use bicycle waterproof (real waterproof, not just splashproof) phone mount attached to handle to test the concept and widen mount options. If phone itself is not water proof maybe you could put it into additional water tight transparent bag.

https://www.amazon.com/customerpicks/Ex ... 0f29c4403a
Maybe take a plexiglass plate (light, cheap and not changing the looks of the board) or sth. similar and attach it under the handle or instead of the handle with the screws right in the middle of the board and glue the mount right there. This has a second advantage: you can easily change it to another board or your split board for traveling. I think of doing it that way.

BTW. I pre-ordered a case a week ago and didn't get any confirmation email. Hope it ll work out anyway. Can't wait to test it!

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Re: Surfr. New kitesurf jump app?

Postby capewindhunter » Sat May 23, 2020 8:37 am

Blackened wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:33 am
CaliRider wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 12:39 am
not sure why you'd want to stick an entire phone on your board for this. ? Is seeing your jump or speed that big of a deal? I just look at my iWatch to see my jumps and speeds. Or is it something else? i guess i just dont' get why you'd want to tape a phone to your board instead of a woo or just use a smartwatch app. ? What am i missing?
I don't want to spend $700 on an Apple watch and another $400 on a Woo.

Real time jump height is not required, but could be nice. I'm most interested in GPS data and jump/speed overlay like the old xensr had.
Slight correction: the WOO 3.0 is $200 if you check their website

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Re: Surfr. New kitesurf jump app?

Postby Kamikuza » Sat May 23, 2020 11:04 am

Question -- what version of iOS will be supported? I got a couple of iPhone 5's that'd be perfect, but they're stuff on iOS12 or something...

BenBen wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:02 pm
I pre-ordered a case a week ago and didn't get any confirmation email. Hope it ll work out anyway. Can't wait to test it!
Same. Got an error on the form the first time though...

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Re: Surfr. New kitesurf jump app?

Postby Blackened » Sun May 24, 2020 12:57 am

capewindhunter wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:37 am
Blackened wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:33 am
CaliRider wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 12:39 am
not sure why you'd want to stick an entire phone on your board for this. ? Is seeing your jump or speed that big of a deal? I just look at my iWatch to see my jumps and speeds. Or is it something else? i guess i just dont' get why you'd want to tape a phone to your board instead of a woo or just use a smartwatch app. ? What am i missing?
I don't want to spend $700 on an Apple watch and another $400 on a Woo.

Real time jump height is not required, but could be nice. I'm most interested in GPS data and jump/speed overlay like the old xensr had.
Slight correction: the WOO 3.0 is $200 if you check their website
Sorry my American friend, "dollar or $" is used in ~20 different countries and not just the US. As mentioned previously, I don't live in the US. If you'd like to compare US prices and quickly looking at Amazon, you can buy a cheap smartphone for $50 USD. Your Woo cost would be $200USD and your apple watch non-cellular is $210USD for $410 total (I'm sure you can find cheaper renewed ones, but this was done quickly because it's windy). Even if the case was $20 and he charged $20/yr, it would take 17 years for the cost to become equal.

;)


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