Shorten kite lines ?

[Guigassa]

But ensure that the lines are spliceable.

How do I ensure they are spliceable?
Are there different kinds of kiteline?

Shrink a bit and see if you can insert something inside.

[matt-0 kite]

Cutting your lines down can be easy and fast, here is how I do it, in a way that I can make them of equal length, and also make them longer again easily if I want. I use lots of different kite line lengths in my school and have been doing it for over 15 years.



You can shorten lines by either splicing them or making figure 8 knots for the places where you attach the pigtails or extensions.

Splicing of course looks neater and overall may be more preferable. But if your splice is not done correctly it can weaken the rope worse than a knot does. Splicing is time-consuming, and it's more difficult to get 4 lines to be exactly the same length.

Making loops by tying a figure 8 knots works just fine, I have been doing it for close to 20 years for my own kites and 15 years on lots and lots of school kites (just don't use an overhand knot).

Knots do weaken lines depending on the knot and how neat it is. But because the knot you make is where the lines are doubled anyway, you don't need to worry about a line breaking at this point. I've never seen it happen. Most line breaks that I've seen, as someone else noted here, happen where there is chafing or other wear or damage on the lines.

And don't defeat the purpose of the whole thing by using a girth hitch to attach your loops together!

Thanks

[longwhitecloud]

Awesome

can you do a figure 8 vs sewn loop with cover - break force?

i have been chopping lines like this for years too without sleeve, but i woudnt ride this bar for super high wind kloops etc - v interested to see the results if you can do it!

All the lines i break with sleeves always break at the point where the sewing starts on the sleeve anyway (i have broken 3 at once - one into 3 pieces - i still don't know that was possible...)

Cutting your lines down can be easy and fast, here is how I do it, in a way that I can make them of equal length, and also make them longer again easily if I want. I use lots of different kite line lengths in my school and have been doing it for over 15 years.



You can shorten lines by either splicing them or making figure 8 knots for the places where you attach the pigtails or extensions.

Splicing of course looks neater and overall may be more preferable. But if your splice is not done correctly it can weaken the rope worse than a knot does. Splicing is time-consuming, and it's more difficult to get 4 lines to be exactly the same length.

Making loops by tying a figure 8 knots works just fine, I have been doing it for close to 20 years for my own kites and 15 years on lots and lots of school kites (just don't use an overhand knot).

Knots do weaken lines depending on the knot and how neat it is. But because the knot you make is where the lines are doubled anyway, you don't need to worry about a line breaking at this point. I've never seen it happen. Most line breaks that I've seen, as someone else noted here, happen where there is chafing or other wear or damage on the lines.

And don't defeat the purpose of the whole thing by using a girth hitch to attach your loops together!

Thanks

[matt-0 kite]

"can you do a figure 8 vs sewn loop with cover - break force?"

That would be cool to see.

"All the lines i break with sleeves always break at the point where the sewing starts on the sleeve anyway"

Agree. I've seen several loops break at the splice, but never with a figure 8 knot like this. The sewn loops always seem to break where the thread connects the two lines. It makes me think, the whole splice is depending on this thin piece of thread which sews the two lines together, what is the breaking strength of the thread?

So I think if you want to splice your lines, it may be better to so a Brummel splice or something like that. But I don't know much about that yet, I've only done splicing with 3-strand rope. Other posts about that on this forum. Also:

[faklord]

The reason I said it is because the strength isn't crazily reduced by a figure eight loop (but it is indeed well reduced with a simple knot on the line). And I've done it quite a bit over the years, and I'm still there to tell the tale.
If you were using super thin race lines, rated for the minimum load you can afford, sure, I'd abstain. But for quality standard lines in the 300kg realm, I don't think it is an issue. Never was for me.

Edit: Apparently figure eight would retain 75-80% of rope breaking strength

According to Marlow ropes it looks like it’s more like 30-40%..Assuming typical kite line is best represented by their D12 figures.
However, as stated, even this reduction is acceptable in most cases.

https://www.marlowropes.com/sites/defau ... phic_0.pdf

“ So I think if you want to splice your lines, it may be better to so a Brummel splice or something like that.”
The strength in a splice should come from the buried tail. Brummel knot or Lock stitch is just to stop the tail shaking out.
The taper at the end of the tail is crucial to retain max strength.

[sarc]

The reason I said it is because the strength isn't crazily reduced by a figure eight loop (but it is indeed well reduced with a simple knot on the line). And I've done it quite a bit over the years, and I'm still there to tell the tale.
If you were using super thin race lines, rated for the minimum load you can afford, sure, I'd abstain. But for quality standard lines in the 300kg realm, I don't think it is an issue. Never was for me.

Edit: Apparently figure eight would retain 75-80% of rope breaking strength

75-80% is possible but not guaranteed.
Years ago I used to sleeve using the sleeve of a cheap throwaway 2mm polyester rope, then figure of 8 loop the sleeved ends (not just a figure of 8 ). Never got an issue, but that would be my last option today that I'm older, wiser and fatter. Brummel splice is always preferred I think.

[bragnouff]

OK, it was always a case of splice is best, I was just saying that it could be done, and has been done many times in the past, to figure eight loop kite lines.
Also, one of the reasons why a splice is better than figure eight loop is that when you unwind and untangle your lines, the figure eight loops will tend to grab other lines and can potentially make the process more tedious, whereas a slick spliced end will untangle much more smoothly.
However, I believe splicing works much better on new clean lines whereas figure eight loop is pretty much indifferent to the condition of the line, and as such, it has a place as a session saving option, that can be performed on a carpark.

[Kiter_from_Germany]

As mentionend tapering of the inner line part of a brummel splice is crucial for long time breaking strength.

But unfortunately this procedure takes most of the time for preparing the splice, usually.
Stepping the fibres out and cutting them, to thin the line out, is the most annoying and time consuming part of splicing I would say.

Has anyone a good idea how to make this better?

[longwhitecloud]

If I break nearly all my lines at the end of the sewn sleeve, then the idea of the sleeve... to increase the diameter of the knot/bend and therefore reduce the increased stresses...

Is a waste of time anyway. Wou lm d make sense that the knot ends with sleeves are not sewn at all.

I have broken splices .. I think because of increased forces on tightly bent knots ( no sleeve)


Would be stronest to use sleeves without sewing?.. list a knot

And deal with the awkwardness of it.


Needs to be tested on a bench! Would be awesome to see.

Maybe using sleeves with a figure 8 loop in them for all attachments is the strongest of all?!

Or maybe it is simply non loop figure 8s and let all kite and bar attachments be stronger line larks heads..


I been thinking about this for years.. sad huh....

The pissing around switching different brand gear drives me crazy.. I have literally been to beach.. too windy for kite and chopped my lines down with scissors and just done this figure 8 loop on all ends and switch 2 pigtails on the kite to be larks heads ( f$%$ u companies that make this difficult! Lol)

The line split height does my head in too.. I started using a stainless ring that I larks head on so I can adjust it easy.... another spot to wear out .

Planned obscelesence in kiting I say today.. or just business advantage awkwardness.. was in indo.. 5 hours to try and fix something that used to be so simple! Cheap graduates getting busy on the cad not thinking about the real world..

[faklord]

As mentionend tapering of the inner line part of a brummel splice is crucial for long time breaking strength.

But unfortunately this procedure takes most of the time for preparing the splice, usually.
Stepping the fibres out and cutting them, to thin the line out, is the most annoying and time consuming part of splicing I would say.

Has anyone a good idea how to make this better?

Use a blunt needle to fray the end of the line. Splay it out then cut taper with scissors.

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A tip for scissors to cut dyneema. Sharpen them with a course stone, diamond file or sanding sheet to give blades micro serations.