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Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

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Youtch
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Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby Youtch » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:05 am

Dear community

Eleveight and Naish 2020 kites seem to be using the same material from the same fabric for Leading edge construction, Dacron Technoforce XT for Eleveight and HT Plus for Naish, but those are marketing names only.

How comes that it enable Naish to inflate with pressure up to 11psi, while Eleveight recommends pressure as low as 7psi in their manual?

Is it that Eleveight Leading edge cannot sustain more pressure or that their kites fly better with lower pressure?

Many thanks in advance for your help to bring some light on this topic

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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby leeuwen » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:20 am

Youtch wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:05 am
Dear community

Eleveight and Naish 2020 kites seem to be using the same material from the same fabric for Leading edge construction, Dacron Technoforce XT for Eleveight and HT Plus for Naish, but those are marketing names only.

How comes that it enable Naish to inflate with pressure up to 11psi, while Eleveight recommends pressure as low as 7psi in their manual?

Is it that Eleveight Leading edge cannot sustain more pressure or that their kites fly better with lower pressure?

Many thanks in advance for your help to bring some light on this topic
Not an expert but I don’t think pressure is limited by the Dacron material itself.
Maybe they use different bladders and also how the leading edge is stitched together might be different (the stitching is probably the weakest spot).
Also potentially the 11PSI is mostly marketing and you are just pumping a lot longer for barely any upside.

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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby nothing2seehere » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:46 am

Pressure needed is related to the thickness of the leading edge. A fatter leading edge will need less pressure (although probably more air) to get the same twist characteristics during steering.

If you search for 'hoop stress' you will probably find some quite detailed explanations on here about how it works. Its a lot less simple than I'm presenting here and things like the number and placement of bridle attachment points makes a difference (hence why North could get away with 6psi recommendations in the past when they had the 5th line bridle using the high Y on the rebel and vegas)

Also some manufacturers will play safe with lower pressure against warranty claims for crashing the kite into the water/land or leaving a kite pumped to high pressure sitting on the beach in the sun.
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Herman
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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby Herman » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:53 am

Size also matters. If you have a thinner leading edge you will need to have higher pressure to prevent buckling (not bending but that is a long story). Therefore you have to construct the leading edge diffently to cater for this.

^^accidently duplicated above while it was being prepared for posting and so I will add something! Does anybody know which strut would have to lose the highest volume of air before it became prone to buckling for the same given load?? My guess is the thinner strut is more vunerable to air loss but not sure that is actually true.

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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby Baptiste_FR » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:02 pm

The other important thing is that the pressure indicated by the pump is not accurate at all. They use cheap manometer. Besides, a few years back, there was not any pressure gauge on the pump and we were riding fine. I pump the kite until it's stiff and it's becomes hard to pump. It usually takes me around 9-10 PSI on my pump. I prefer to over pump than having a kite that behave strange due to a lack of pressure.

The first kite from Duotone were advise to be pumped at 6 PSI, I find that really really low (it's only 0,4 bar).

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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby Herman » Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:46 pm

This is going to be boring: Never had a pressure guage but I do know the bore area of my pump and so I know how much force is required for a particular pressure. Light weights may benefit from topping up with a smaller bore pump eg SUP Pump to easily achieve higher pressures but you would have to know what you're doing to avoid the risk of damage!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Herman on Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby nixmatters » Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:20 pm

I've heard Pat Goodman mentioning in an interview that the optimal LE pressure for any kite (or at least I guess those he designed) is when the LE is stiff enough that you can't bend it easily. Very broad range considering different riders body weight and strength, yet probably better than a cheap pressure gauge.

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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby Ludmil » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:09 pm

Youtch wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:05 am
Dear community

Eleveight and Naish 2020 kites seem to be using the same material from the same fabric for Leading edge construction, Dacron Technoforce XT for Eleveight and HT Plus for Naish, but those are marketing names only.

How comes that it enable Naish to inflate with pressure up to 11psi, while Eleveight recommends pressure as low as 7psi in their manual?

Is it that Eleveight Leading edge cannot sustain more pressure or that their kites fly better with lower pressure?

Many thanks in advance for your help to bring some light on this topic
HT means High Tensile Thread.
It's the thread which makes it possible not the fabric.

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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby nixmatters » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:30 pm

I had a laugh when I first saw that HT High Tensile thread in their website! :lol:
The correct name is High Tenacity and this Polyester yarn grade is used for a wide range of sewing threads by virtually all manufacturers.
Yes, there are higher and lower qualities, but the thread they use is in no way unique. The same High Tenacity Polyester yarn grade is what all ripstop canopy and dacron fabrics are made of.

As for making the LE seam stronger, there are few different ways to achieve that, but it's down to cost as usual.

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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby Ludmil » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:11 pm

So you know the answer to OP's question, but you wouldn't share it with the plebs. 😀


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