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Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

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Blackened
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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby Blackened » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:16 am

Baptiste_FR wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:02 pm
The other important thing is that the pressure indicated by the pump is not accurate at all. They use cheap manometer. Besides, a few years back, there was not any pressure gauge on the pump and we were riding fine. I pump the kite until it's stiff and it's becomes hard to pump. It usually takes me around 9-10 PSI on my pump. I prefer to over pump than having a kite that behave strange due to a lack of pressure.

The first kite from Duotone were advise to be pumped at 6 PSI, I find that really really low (it's only 0,4 bar).
Yeah, don't pump Duotone kites to 6psi. They need at least 8, probably 9/10 to run when properly powered up. Otherwise, you may run into a design flaw where it created a flex zone on the last attachment point. 3 kites all tore in the same spot on the leading edge (both sides). Had a Rebel do something similar, but I didn't investigate well enough before I sold it to say it was a design problem.

Pump until it's hard, then pump pump pump some more. :)

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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby nixmatters » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:00 am

Ludmil wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:11 pm
So you know the answer to OP's question, but you wouldn't share it with the plebs. 😀
I thought this was answered already above, but I'll sum it up as per my understanding:
- LE diameter determines the required pressure to achieve the desired stiffness
- dacron eneven stretch in weft/warp plays an important role too.
- getting the designed arch shape needs specific pressure, under inflation leads to more open arch, over inflation - more closed arch. The position of the LE closing seam is important here.
- LE twisting, determined by the kite design.
- sufficient pressure to avoid buckling and excessive wear (see last post above)

LE pressure is just one component of the kite design - a large mix of trade offs.

P. S. I had a few sessions on the North Carve 12m and was vey hesitant to follow what was printed next to the valve - 5PSI! I does have a fat LE, but just 5psi... come on!
Of course I put good 7 psi the first session, but then gave it a try with 6 and then 5 - the kite flew perfectly fine, no issues at all.

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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby RidingRobi » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:24 pm

Youtch wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:05 am
Eleveight and Naish 2020 kites seem to be using the same material from the same fabric for Leading edge construction, Dacron Technoforce XT for Eleveight and HT Plus for Naish, but those are marketing names only.

How comes that it enable Naish to inflate with pressure up to 11psi, while Eleveight recommends pressure as low as 7psi in their manual?

Is it that Eleveight Leading edge cannot sustain more pressure or that their kites fly better with lower pressure?
"Dacron Technoforce XT" this describes the specific dacron used by eleveight and "ht plus" describes the seam technology by naish.
Quite different things to compare. At least with Naish the allowed pressure was increased with the new seam technology.
And yes, this increase in pressure was quite noticeable. I sold my old Slashes for the newer gem with HT and my Dad did the same with his Pivots.

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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby Youtch » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:31 am

What is the difference between "Dacron Technoforce XT" used by eleveight and "ht plus" used by naish, besides marketing names, as they come out of the same factory?

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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby nixmatters » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:22 am

Youtch wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:31 am
What is the difference between "Dacron Technoforce XT" used by eleveight and "ht plus" used by naish, besides marketing names, as they come out of the same factory?
Attachments
Screenshot_20200620_112048.jpg

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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby Youtch » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:47 pm

Sorry it is still unclear to me.

Both are using same Tehcnoforce material from Teijin, correct?
https://www2.teijin-frontier.com/englis ... force.html

If I try to understand what you are saying, XT would refer to the material and HT about the way the leading edge get sewed?
So basically Naish take the material and request the kite factory to sew it in a very particular way that made it stronger? Or It got it wrong?
This does not to be explicit in their description.

HT Plus = This high-tensile thread fortifies the leading edge along the seam

XT made by Techno Force™ and Teijin’s latest XT leading- and trailing edge material are used to construct
the latest XT high-end leading edge and strut material by Japanese manufacturer Teijin
trailing edge load diffusers and battens, and upgraded to the latest Teijin leading edge and strut material made off XT high tenacity cloth

Do you have any close-up pictures to illustrate this?
Sorry to insist but it is very hard to understand beyond marketing bullshit what is it we are exactly talking about.

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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby RidingRobi » Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:37 pm

nixmatters wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:22 am
Youtch wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:31 am
What is the difference between "Dacron Technoforce XT" used by eleveight and "ht plus" used by naish, besides marketing names, as they come out of the same factory?
One is the material and manufacturing of the seam (HTT by naish) and one is the material of the leading edge.

Both deal about different parts of your Kite.

The leading edge is the cylindrical inflated part of your Kite. That's made of dacron. In eleveights case out of "Dacron Technoforce XT.

The leading edge seam is the seam that connects both ends of your dacron tissue to get that cylindrical shape. Naish uses a specific technique and material, called HTT.

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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby Youtch » Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:53 pm

I know what leading edge is, i have been kiting for 15 years now, but i still appreciate your explanation.

So if i understood you correctly, XT is the material that comes directly from Teijin factory used for leading edge part in Eleveight kites, while HTT is technique applied when assembling the leading edge by the company in charge of manufacturing kites for Naish.

Do you have any close up picture of HTT seams to see better what we are talking about?

Then my second question is what material, Naish used to build leading edge part? It comes from Teijin is it also Technoforce XT?

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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby Greenturtle » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:37 pm

Pump rock hard then go rock out. 6psi is a joke.
I pump my OR flites to 9-10 on the wmfg gauge and have pretzeled them up in the waves enough times to know that its FINE and they use some of the lightest dacron in the industry.
Are you planning to tether tomahawk your kite onto asphalt? If the answer is no don’t sweat it, pump em good.

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Re: Eleveight vs Naish Leading Edge pressure

Postby Windigo1 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:55 am

I think the pressure is part of the overall design of the kite. A small leading edge require more pressure a big one less pressure. It's a combination of the leading edge size the bridle the shape of the kite etc.. the dacron can probably hold a lot more but the recommended pressure takes all the design element into consideration for the kite to fly as intended.


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