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How to survive a 5th line wrap in the middle and death loop?

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iksrazal
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How to survive a 5th line wrap in the middle and death loop?

Postby iksrazal » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:12 pm

So I have several North Rebel 5 line kites from a few years ago. I recently moved to Maui, and I am having more problems with the 5th line wrapping in the middle - a few times this year the wind was gusty and the kite landed flat in the water in a way that floated the kite into wrapping itself.

A few days ago it happened again, this time the wind was lighter and I was on a 10m. I pulled one of the back lines to turn the kite around, but this time I couldn't get the 5th line to slide off. I decided to self rescue and this was my first mistake: I tried wrapping the lines on the bar to get to the kite - I was told later they don't do that here due to strong winds.

When I wrapped the lines, the tension started pulling me away from shore and the wind got stronger. I managed to turn the kite around to shore, where it started death looping and I released the red safety section. I was pretty far from shore and exhausted, so I let it drag me instead of releasing the leash and trying to get back with a twin tip board. I ended up on the far west side and I was pretty sure the kite would hit the trees and stop, which is what happened. I was short of breath but otherwise fine, the gear was all fine.

Any tips? The one thing I will now do for sure, is kite before 4pm - when the jet ski rescue is available.

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Toby
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Re: How to survive a 5th line wrap in the middle and death loop?

Postby Toby » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:28 pm

Did you wrap the lines equally at the same time?
So the kite still got tension?

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Re: How to survive a 5th line wrap in the middle and death loop?

Postby longwhitecloud » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:12 am

There is a solution. Slingshots idea. It was called wave grenade.. it was a quick release for the 5th line.

It worked so you could get back to shore on 4 lines .. however badly the kite flew.

5th line can be godsend in some situations, a nightmare in others.

In super high winds I trust 5th line over anything.. preferably on a c kite where your kite cannot easily tip wrap the bridles into a death loop.

A colour coded 5th line will save you too.. wrapped in your lines? Which one do you grab if you need to to stop a hot launch while you are wrapped in them.. the 5th.. u need to be able to identify which one it is.

I am not attacking this model/ brand in particular but I do see some embarrassing engineering in kite equipment these days. You clearly get what you pay. Designers need a huge amount of riding experience and need to be decent engineers imo.. I dont believe it is good any other way.

iksrazal
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Re: How to survive a 5th line wrap in the middle and death loop?

Postby iksrazal » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:29 am

I wrapped the lines equally the best I could in the middle of the bar, maybe I should have done that differently. As I was getting farther away from shore the wind was getting stronger.

I was told by people on shore that they don't wrap the lines on the bar here in Maui for self rescue. I was still a little rattled, best I remember I was told that I could pull one of the rear lines to get to the kite however I also don't want to get myself wrapped up in the other lines.

The winds here are super strong, I'm 160lb and on a 6m with a twin tip most days. I'm slowly transitioning to 4 line kites though I have quite a few North Rebel 5 line kites still. I need to deal with them for better or worse lol.

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Re: How to survive a 5th line wrap in the middle and death loop?

Postby TheJoe » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:39 am

You never self rescue all lines equal that is a no no if there is wind. I can see if it is completely dead. One thing to do is all ways make sure your untwisting your lines. I think people don't pay attention to the center lines that much. When your centers get twisted up too much they will make it impossible for the kite to flag out. I ride with SS bars with the above the bar depower. I make sure to straighten them out because they become twisted from rotations. A few weeks ago I was on a Core kite with the High Y in the bar. I noticed that the flag out line was getting twisted and I had no way to untwist it. This was on the Sensor 2 bar don't know if they have fixed it.

A overly twisted flag out line will not work as intended. Be mindful of that while riding.

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Re: How to survive a 5th line wrap in the middle and death loop?

Postby Daversj » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:11 am

The best fix is dont use 5 line kites. For big kites in lite wind they help with relaunch. That’s the only advantage i see of 5 lines. A well designed bridal should be enough to hold the kite’s shape. Doing lessons i flagged 4 line kites all day long, never a problem. If you over twist your lines no system will work. Get a death loop, flag it asap or it wont work.

5 line setups aren’t worth the potential tangles especially in waves. Many times i flew an inverted kite back to shore to fix it or fixed it in the water. Good luck with five lines. Would you take a foil kite with bridles in the waves. Probably not, unless your name is Foilholio. Less is more, simplicity is more reliable.

I always taught kite students to “Flag it and Drag It”. Winding up lines is very dangerous and puts you close to slack lines. Slack lines aren’t safe. You should know how to self rescue, but more important is when to. Most times don't, just swim or drift in with the kite flagged. If you are playing by the rules the wind should take you to shore. Or your buddy can drag you back by his leash. In very strong winds its suicidal to wind your lines up in the water. No kite is worth my life, anyone else's life or my flesh and blood.

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Re: How to survive a 5th line wrap in the middle and death loop?

Postby kitelife » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:58 am

TheJoe wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:39 am
A few weeks ago I was on a Core kite with the High Y in the bar. I noticed that the flag out line was getting twisted and I had no way to untwist it. This was on the Sensor 2 bar don't know if they have fixed it.

A overly twisted flag out line will not work as intended. Be mindful of that while riding.
Just turn the swivel to untwist.

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Re: How to survive a 5th line wrap in the middle and death loop?

Postby TheJoe » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:46 am

kitelife wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:58 am
TheJoe wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:39 am
A few weeks ago I was on a Core kite with the High Y in the bar. I noticed that the flag out line was getting twisted and I had no way to untwist it. This was on the Sensor 2 bar don't know if they have fixed it.

A overly twisted flag out line will not work as intended. Be mindful of that while riding.
Just turn the swivel to untwist.
Did not work to untwist the flag out line. I tried it but it was not doing anything. Could have been something wrong with bar I don't know.

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Re: How to survive a 5th line wrap in the middle and death loop?

Postby leeuwen » Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:16 am

TheJoe wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:46 am
kitelife wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:58 am
TheJoe wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:39 am
A few weeks ago I was on a Core kite with the High Y in the bar. I noticed that the flag out line was getting twisted and I had no way to untwist it. This was on the Sensor 2 bar don't know if they have fixed it.

A overly twisted flag out line will not work as intended. Be mindful of that while riding.
Just turn the swivel to untwist.
Did not work to untwist the flag out line. I tried it but it was not doing anything. Could have been something wrong with bar I don't know.
Not sure what you did but this should not even be possible.
The one thing that is actually great about the core bars is the auto-untwist (not a fan of the high Y or the turn release of the 2 model):
When you loop the kite the twisting of the centre lines should happen below the bar and you just pull in the bar to untwist it auto-magically.
Its really quite awesome and since I loop the kite quite often I really would not want to live with a manual untwist ever again.

However, if you setup the kite lines without untwisting the centrelines it will stay twisted in that position forever.
So when you roll out the lines you must untwist the centre lines as well.

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Toby
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Re: How to survive a 5th line wrap in the middle and death loop?

Postby Toby » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:05 am

You should never wrap up all lines equally...the kite will keep shape that way.

You can start with the 5th line or if you don’t have one outside line.
Wrap it for as long as your kite is long. With 5th line as long as your kite is wide.

Once you wrapped those meters, you wrap the other lines as well together with the line you started with.

With strong wind I would not wrap lines.
I release to my 5th line (or whatever system someone uses), and then I push myself along one line (most likely a steering line) to the kite.
Make sure you pull on the line that is most upwind...this way you keep all other lines downwind and away from you.

Once you reached the kite, you take your bar ( which is still close to you since you released it but not completely) and wrap your lines as good as you can so they don’t float around you (be very careful, it is easy to tangle in Ti e lines now).

Once done you think about how to get back to shore, and use the tip of the kite that is pointing to shore by pulling the lines of that tip to get wind and drag you back to shore.

Your board should be with you all time.
If not, ask someone to get it or leave it if you can’t reach/find it. Kite is more important.
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