Liquid force kiteboarding stops business

[drsurf]

lwc I went to Merimbula last year and saw plenty of younger ripping riders, so what? Congregating the keen in one spot always looks good.
Lazy, uninspired? Your words not mine.

As I said in the last line of my post let the younger generation speak for themselves.
You're only using them, (without any explicit permission that I'm aware of), to support your tirades against the industry and whatever else you have a grudge against. Pretty low even for you.

[longwhitecloud]

Your opinions on my motives couldn't be more wrong. Here are some freestyle basics videos I made with 150 000 views,great sub numbers, and ridiculous hours watched statistics - I get sooo much positive feedback from helping many younger riders, as I have done in many other ways too.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsmbMQ ... Z3A/videos

[jumptheshark]

It isnt as simple as just buying used kit though is it.

Well, Yes actually it is. I have no doubt there are actually many on here who started that way. I certainly did. No big inspiration from Pro athletes or influencers. No involvement whatsoever with any kind of organization, and I'll openly admit, no lessons at all. None of that stuff was even around. I was not a kid, but kiting was not around when I was a kid and I generally approached windsurfing (as a kid) the exact same way. Never had a lesson in my life. Bought used stuff where my dad matched my half! Ah the good ol days. Anyway, I digress.

I bought a used kite off ebay from a school in the gorge. I had no clue. Was a North C kite and came with a Naish bar. I did enough reading to learn how to rig it 5 line and took it up to the hillside to flop it around until I figured it out. Then to snow, then to water.

My inspiration was seeing it live for the first time and hoping for a dual season alternative to windsurfing.

Young people gravitate to what they think is cool regardless of ease of access or even roadblocks. They will do what they want.

I think the dumbing down of kiting to old man capable hooked in stuff, foiling etc, and the shift away from actual gnarly wave riding to strapless freestyle stuff is all more of a turn off than any ioc, gka or ika and "world champion" nomenclature squables.

I really think you cant see the forest for the trees on this one. There may well be less youth in the sport than there used to be. Cant tell from here, there have never been many to speak of, but that has more to do with them no seeing it as attractive than any of the reasons you keep repeating combined.

I had already gotten proficient as a kiter by the time I started to lean about people like Lou or Dre or any of the many incredible riders that have inspired me in the past. The ones that truly inspired me ( and I believe would appeal to younger demographics ) were not even in competitions. They were before the commercial wave. They were the ones who inspired the youth you speak of a decade ago.

The ebb and flow of the sport is just the way it is. It's an arc. The bell curve of those participating is also a pretty well understood phenomenon. No one company, no one group and no individual's doing. It is the sum total of influences. Just do your thing. If that is lowering barriers to younger generations in kiteboarding, raise some funds, buy some of that cheap readily available gear and build a park. You build it, and they will come, but bitching to a bunch of old dudes on the internet......

[Flyboy]

Your opinions on my motives couldn't be more wrong. Here are some freestyle basics videos I made with 150 000 views,great sub numbers, and ridiculous hours watched statistics - I get sooo much positive feedback from helping many younger riders, as I have done in many other ways too.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsmbMQ ... Z3A/videos

It's hard to know whether it's worth spending the energy refuting your ridiculous claims, but I'll give it one more shot.

1) Yes, kiteboarding requires expenditure on a certain amount of equipment in order to participate. There's no getting around that fact. Some sports require more, many require less. It's not an accident that the most popular & most played sport in the world - football - requires almost no equipment.

2) Kitesurfing gear isn't getting more expensive. At worst it's staying about the same (inflation adjusted). But there is a lot of used gear available for a pretty modest outlay that is better than the top-of-the-line new gear from 10 years ago. If prices go up in the future because Chinese workers get paid more, so be it. They deserve a decent income. I suspect the percentage of the cost of new gear that goes to the workers is extremely small in any case.

3) Foiling - which you seem to have a particular problem with - is not some cunning plan by World Sailing to take over kitesurfing. It's an organically arrived at technological innovation that has opened up a whole new world of riding, particularly in the lighter winds that are common in many parts of the world. As far as "mowing the lawn" is concerned ... I almost always have some bystanders on the beach come up to me at the end of a session & comment on how amazing it looks.

4) The proliferation of different kiting disciplines is a GOOD thing. It allows people to pick what they find most compelling: big air, freestyle, speed, racing, wave riding, strapless freestyle, foiling, or just cruising around. In that, it is like skiing/snowboarding.

5) There have NEVER been a lot of "young people" kiting. There are practical reasons for that. In order to have young people you need parents pushing their kids into the sport. For the average parent, kitesurfing is an extremely impractical option. Most parents are looking for a sports activity that their kids can participate in on an organized basis - that allows scheduling & provides "child care" at the same time. The obvious choice is a team sport like soccer, or basketball, or alternatively something like tennis or golf. The closest equivalent to kite surfing would be something like skiing/snowboarding. Think how many parents start their 6 year old off in a class with a dozen other 6 years olds to learn how to ski/snowboard? Now imagine a dozen 6 year olds in a kitesurfing class!

Kitesurfing is very hard to schedule, does not lend itself to group instruction, requires a lot of space, requires particular weather conditions ... & it has the potential to be extremely dangerous. Not surprising there are very few parent pushing their kids into participating. The only teenage kiters I am aware of are the children of kiters & there may also be young kiters in kite specific locations like Cabarete or (I suppose) Merimbula. In both cases I suspect the "role models" are provided by parents &/or other local kiters rather than some big shot international kite pro.

[longwhitecloud]

That is a better way to debate instead of attacking my motives/ reputation.

1) That has been a constant, not a change.

2) China manufacturing costs have increased 10-16% each year (Labour cost big contributor). An example I did: 17% increase in last 4 years inflation adjusted (7%). 2016 Full RRP 2599 2020 Full RRP $3210
China has had one of the biggest wage and manufacturing cost increases in that last 4 years in the world.

3) My point with foiling is that the average age of a foiler is higher than the general kiting population due to the vast increase in price it adds to kiting (minimum $1400 if you want entry level) and because it is doesnt market itself to a new younger generation of riders because it looks so boring in comparison to freestyle kiteboarding or kite surfing.

4) For some yes, but it also has diluted focus on an already niche sport, specifically to me it has diluted the "action sport" focus of the sport. Ben Wilson mentions this in his video too.

5) Im talking about reasons for the specific change over the last 4 - 10 years of there being less and less younger riders, and saying that this is a contributing factor to why kiteboarding companies are going down the plughole.

What brand/s do you sell at the moment?

[Flyboy]

That is a better way to debate instead of attacking my motives/ reputation.

1) That has been a constant, not a change.

2) China manufacturing costs have increased 10-16% each year (Labour cost big contributor). An example I did: 17% increase in last 4 years inflation adjusted (7%). 2016 Full RRP 2599 2020 Full RRP $3210
China has had one of the biggest wage and manufacturing cost increases in that last 4 years in the world.

3) My point with foiling is that the average age of a foiler is higher than the general kiting population due to the vast increase in price it adds to kiting (minimum $1400 if you want entry level) and because it is doesnt market itself to a new younger generation of riders because it looks so boring in comparison to freestyle kiteboarding or kite surfing.

4) For some yes, but it also has diluted focus on an already niche sport, specifically to me it has diluted the "action sport" focus of the sport. Ben Wilson mentions this in his video too.

5) Im talking about reasons for the specific change over the last 4 - 10 years of there being less and less younger riders, and saying that this is a contributing factor to why kiteboarding companies are going down the plughole.

What brand/s do you sell at the moment?

If you're responding to me, I don't sell kiting equipment.

The bottom line is that kitesurfing never has been a mass sport. It's not suitable for the majority of people & it's even less suitable for the majority of kids (for the reasons I already described). This is a good thing, because if the launches were suddenly inundated with masses of new kiters it would quickly lead to over crowding, accidents & wholesale restrictions & bannings.

You seem very fixated on the idea that young people would only be interested in kiting if they see some flashy "action sport" version. I would suggest that for most people the thrill of going through the learning process & getting their first wobbly run on a TT is quite enough of a radical experience to capture their attention.

I question whether you have ever foiled yourself? Freestyle or mega looping may look more radical, but foiling feels pretty amazing. To use the skiing/snowboarding analogy again: radical bump skiing or half pipe moves may be difficult & look flashy, but there's not a skier/snowboarder who wouldn't choose to make tracks on a big mountain in fresh powder instead, given the chance. Foiling is the kiting equivalent of powder skiing.

[scottnorby]

Good riddance. Such a misogynistic company!

Its true. When my gf was just starting she struggled a bit. I thought it was because her tits were too big but it turned out the problem was the liquid force aura board, designed and marketed by people who hate women and want them to fail

Not debating your opinion...
But the original 2004 Aura was designed by Jimmy Lewis.
It's the Drop design with slightly different length
Although they changed it after Nina Heiberg left so im unsure who redesigned?

I thought the Lewis Drop was fun....concave, no sharp rails, surfy feel.
Of course that was 2004 == when everyone was scrambling to release the best new bridled bow kite

Watching the video of Ben Wilson I feel his concern for the industry
I too started kiting in order to get out to the waves on my surfboard
And its seems logical surfkiting would have grown more than it did?
But a sport like kiting can not grow year after year....without lawsuits....beach closures....and crime/stealing
Its too complicated....its not as simple as surfing

Im curious what will happen with wing technology
Getting into it now myself
But nothing replaces kiting a 12 mile downwinder mid July
Sunset strip or jetty to Iredale
Steady NW winds and shoulder to head high long interval SOUTH swell
On a surfboard

Liquid Force helped me get to my dream
And everyone leaving LF
will have a chance
to turn a page and move on to great things

[longwhitecloud]

That is a better way to debate instead of attacking my motives/ reputation.

1) That has been a constant, not a change.

2) China manufacturing costs have increased 10-16% each year (Labour cost big contributor). An example I did: 17% increase in last 4 years inflation adjusted (7%). 2016 Full RRP 2599 2020 Full RRP $3210
China has had one of the biggest wage and manufacturing cost increases in that last 4 years in the world.

3) My point with foiling is that the average age of a foiler is higher than the general kiting population due to the vast increase in price it adds to kiting (minimum $1400 if you want entry level) and because it is doesnt market itself to a new younger generation of riders because it looks so boring in comparison to freestyle kiteboarding or kite surfing.

4) For some yes, but it also has diluted focus on an already niche sport, specifically to me it has diluted the "action sport" focus of the sport. Ben Wilson mentions this in his video too.

5) Im talking about reasons for the specific change over the last 4 - 10 years of there being less and less younger riders, and saying that this is a contributing factor to why kiteboarding companies are going down the plughole.

What brand/s do you sell at the moment?

If you're responding to me, I don't sell kiting equipment.

The bottom line is that kitesurfing never has been a mass sport. It's not suitable for the majority of people & it's even less suitable for the majority of kids (for the reasons I already described). This is a good thing, because if the launches were suddenly inundated with masses of new kiters it would quickly lead to over crowding, accidents & wholesale restrictions & bannings.

You seem very fixated on the idea that young people would only be interested in kiting if they see some flashy "action sport" version. I would suggest that for most people the thrill of going through the learning process & getting their first wobbly run on a TT is quite enough of a radical experience to capture their attention.

I question whether you have ever foiled yourself? Freestyle or mega looping may look more radical, but foiling feels pretty amazing. To use the skiing/snowboarding analogy again: radical bump skiing or half pipe moves may be difficult & look flashy, but there's not a skier/snowboarder who wouldn't choose to make tracks on a big mountain in fresh powder instead, given the chance. Foiling is the kiting equivalent of powder skiing.

No idea what u r going on about. I am talking about my opinions on what led to the demise of the these kiteboarding companies and the ones that have also been struggling in the last couple of years and the related lower participation numbers.

I dont think the animated gif look of foiling has helped the sport to market itself as it once did. The foiling target market also doesnt bring in many new inspired young riders, mainly over 50s with some cash to spare and good for them, they can do what they like.

[Jamesconn300]

People are either drawn to flying a kite or they aint. I think it's easier now than ever to get into the sport. I can't imagine trying to learn without youtube or without used gear. All my gear was/is used and most of the learning came from hundreds of hours of youtube + 9 hrs of professional lessons. One comment on a youtube tutorial was about a graphic the creator used to explain some kite movement. The creator responded that it took him a few hours to make a 10-second graphic. Youtube is an incredible resource, it doesn't replace the required professional instruction, but it should be mandatory supplementation. Thanks to everyone who has ever uploaded any instructional or tutorial or edit! you guys and gals are beyond helpful!

[TomW]

as I understand it, LF will get out of kite, and kiteboard ( non hydrofoiling) business?
I wish more companies would act like flysurfer, ozone, and core and stop year on year releases. I think Slingshot was going to do that ? Or was it Ocean Rodeo...