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Cabrinha overdrive 1x tuning

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Sam1061917
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Cabrinha overdrive 1x tuning

Postby Sam1061917 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:22 pm

Hello all,
I'm very new to kitesurfing and I bought an 11m Switchblade with the 1x overdrive bar.
I've noticed the kite can be slow to respond to inputs from the bar and it's quite sluggish, it also struggles to pull me up on the board. I also noticed the kite responds slightly better when kiting to the right.
I've also noticed the back lines had a bit of slack in them last time I was out.

So today I looked a tuning the lines, the only way I could get the back lines to match the length of the front lines was to remove the knots that were originally on the pigtails and so there are now no knots in either pigtails, so I essentially lengthened the back lines as far as they could go, which was a good 3 inches in comparison to the length they were before.
I'm a bit confused though,any idea why the back lines were originally set a good 3 inches shorter?
And surely now with longer back lines I'm going to get a lot more slack in them?
I've attached photos of the line ends and the bar and I'd greatly appreciate if someone can tell me if they look OK.
Cheers for the help.
Sam
Attachments
20200726_120610.jpg
20200726_120943.jpg

Whitebalance
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Re: Cabrinha overdrive 1x tuning

Postby Whitebalance » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:23 pm

4 lines have to be same lenght when on full power. Bar at the bottom and power adjustment fully released aka full power. Lines tend to stretch and adjustment for older bars is normal. Usually central lines get longer what means that you can pull bar too much down what can stall the kite - loss of performance is huge then. Different adjustment at the pigtails is normal as the central and turning lines have different forces.

Herman
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Re: Cabrinha overdrive 1x tuning

Postby Herman » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:31 pm

Learn how to identify the full trim/sheeting range available for your kite and understand how it effects the way the kite flys. Simplistically, this range is trim out and sheeted in for start of backstall to trim in and sheeted out to the point where the rear steering lines do not have enough tension to control the kite. (Where was the trim strap when the rears where slack????)

The simplest approach imho is to set the bar to the even length datum, (this datum enables same bar to be used for other kites on the same system ), and then adjust the kite pigtails so that the kite is just starting to backstall when fully trimmed out and fully sheeted in. Having identified this, as a beginner, then lengthen the rear or shorten the front kite pigs a tad to eradicate the backstall. Or set up appropriate alternative knots.

With this setting if you have a long trim strap you will probably have too much rear slack to control the kite if you trim all the way in when the wind is light! But not the case in strong wind.

PS This assumes you do not have bridle or canopy problems. Dyneema generally shrinks and loaded lines shrink less.
Enlisting the help of an experienced rider may be wise if you are a beginner!! Easier to do than explain!!

Regards Herman

Daversj
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Re: Cabrinha overdrive 1x tuning

Postby Daversj » Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:17 am

That bar looks good after your adjustment if the trim is Set at full power.
Old bars aren't the best path however. New bars aren't the biggest expense in kiting, but are probably the most important. A snapped line or poorly working release at the wrong time could be serious.
Lightly used kites, and boards offer a good value. But spring for a new bar or a new leftover to save some money.

nixmatters
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Re: Cabrinha overdrive 1x tuning

Postby nixmatters » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:26 am

Sam1061917 wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:22 pm
Hello all,

I've noticed the kite can be slow to respond to inputs from the bar and it's quite sluggish, it also struggles to pull me up on the board. I also noticed the kite responds slightly better when kiting to the right.
I've also noticed the back lines had a bit of slack in them last time I was out.
Hey Sam, well done to adjust the lengths using the pigtails made exactly for that. For a minor adjustment you can move the knots up/down, for a major one untie them as you did.
BUT - before doing that and especially if you or the previoous owner kited in salt water and/or beaches with fine sand - give the lines a good wash in warm fresh water - soak, rinse, repeat, then give them a good pull (your body weight with a harness) and then adjust the lengths.
Whitebalance wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:23 pm
4 lines have to be same lenght when on full power. Bar at the bottom and power adjustment fully released aka full power. Lines tend to stretch and adjustment for older bars is normal. Usually central lines get longer what means that you can pull bar too much down what can stall the kite - loss of performance is huge then. Different adjustment at the pigtails is normal as the central and turning lines have different forces.
All spot on, apart from that front lines dont get longer, but rear lines get shorter. Ask your colleagues at Cabrinha - they was a major study done in the factory some years ago. None of the many used bars tested had an inch longer front lines than the original size. All had shorter rear lines. There was a post here from the guy running their PM back then, I can find it for you.

Stalling the kite with shorter rear lines does affect performance, but I'm ready to put some money that his problem with sluggish response and slack rear lines is due to shrunk bridle lines.

@ Sam,
do the same with the bridle lines - wash them well and give them a good pull. No need to detatch them, but would be better to do so. And please measure the lengths - left vs right and before vs after. What you may notice is that different bridle segments have shrunk differently - a solid reason for a kite to behave weirdly.
If your problem was just 3 inches shorter rear lines (I've seen upto 10!), trimming the bar (full depower) would have solved it right away.

Would be great if you share the outcome! Cheers

Herman
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Re: Cabrinha overdrive 1x tuning

Postby Herman » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:12 pm

Sam1061917 wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:22 pm
Hello all,
I'm very new to kitesurfing and I bought an 11m Switchblade with the 1x overdrive bar.
I've noticed the kite can be slow to respond to inputs from the bar and it's quite sluggish, it also struggles to pull me up on the board. I also noticed the kite responds slightly better when kiting to the right.
I've also noticed the back lines had a bit of slack in them last time I was out.
Sam
Nixmatters post is good advice and follows on from my post. Your bridle will have shrunk but tuning the pigtails of a very old 9m Switch Blade I picked up gave me satisfactory performance but it is only compensating rather than the complete cure.

Not surprisingly as a beginner, I think your diagnostics are a bit off or incomplete. Slack steering lines will make the kite slow to respond to bar inputs but it will not normally make the kite sluggish. Indeed it is the opposite, at a low angle of attack the kite will fly fast but not develop power. It will also be keen to overfly the window.

If your rear lines are too slack WHEN the trim is all the way out (and the bar is set correctly) the first thing to try is using a kite rear pigtail knot that is closer to the kite. You extended your rears by 3in, choosing a rear pig knot 3in closer to the kite brings you back to square 1, and so choosing a knot 5in closer to the kite will enable you to feel a 2in difference in kite trim.

But as I have already said it might be worth getting an experienced rider to check it out for you! Adjustments can be made using front pigs in the opposite direction or some and some with front and back pigs. It comes down to understanding how the angle of attack is controlled by the sheeted/trimmed difference between line lengths front and rear.


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