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Naish 2021

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Dirk
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Re: Naish 2021

Postby Dirk » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:52 pm

Got my new 11m Pivot last week and a 6m three weeks before that. Also could not resist to get a 138 Traverse and had one session with it so far. The shape is quite interesting, there is no 3D-shaping whatsoever, the edge is not thinned out, but really thick, 1cm at the middle as compared to 0,5cm with my Motion. Because there is a lot of material the board is a bit heavier than my Motion 134. Goes super smooth through chop (that was my main objective) and carves really well (second objective). I need a couple more sessions to get a complete view on it. So far very happy (and the octopus design looks fantastic, that’s the normal version Traverse)

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Re: Naish 2021

Postby Rob112 » Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:43 pm

I got my 12 last week too. Took about a week to come once the shop ordered from Naish - supplies are obviously quite different country to country.

Not had the wind to use it yet, but keen to see how the s26 compares to the 2020 12m I had and sold.
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tautologies
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Re: Naish 2021

Postby tautologies » Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:52 am

I've had the 12 out 3 sessions. I'm getting used to a big kite again.
To me this kite feels a bit like a mix between pivot and draft. Definitely a pivot, but seems to have a dash of draft. It looks a bit more open than what I am used to from the smaller versions. Again this is my perception and I might be completely wrong.

General impression, the kite likes to be ridden actively in light wind. It stays in the air for a long time and is easy to relaunch. It is easy to self-launch, and self-land. It has some bar pressure on the regular setting, but nothing bad. I have not moved anything around. I have ridden it on 22 and 24 meter lines. The kite feels fast and agile for a 12, but I am not sure if it is fast enough for the way I generally ride waves. That said, I have never had a 12 that really works in waves where I ride and how I ride. I do think a powered parked session in side to side off would works well.

I have had it out in anything from super ultra light to fairly powered, but never lit. I have ridden foil, surfboard, and TT. I like the kite best with a TT. The foil was not mine so it is hard to say to what extent I will like this kite on a foil, because I certainly did not like the foil setup my friend has.
The surfboard experience: I have had it in side-shore and onshore on conditions...tbh the onshore condition was not ideal but that was not the fault of the kite, no one could ride those waves it was messy. It was fun to launch off them as ramps tho, I did get in a few hits. In sideshore the kite behaved exemplary. I did not get pulled off the wave and the kite worked just about as well as any 12 have. In lighter wind, it looped and kept steady pull. In more wind is parked and drifted without any jellyfishing. It does have quite a bit of pull once I started looping in more wind, but I could bleed it. I do ride a small surfboard tho.

With a TT the kite was super fun. I have not been on TT much the past years and this kite kind of got me amped. Hang-time was really really nice, and I always knew where the kite was for regular and loopy landings. I could even change my mind while landing. I did not try anything unhooked or much trickery just simple rotations. More of that will come because...so much fun. I think the kite works in lighter wind, but it really turns on at a certain point. I find it hard to say exactly when that is, but once I got powered I really enjoyed going fast and sending the kite. Good old school fun and exactly why I got this kite. Going off ramps or flat was fun and easy. I do think the kite could work unhooked, but I did not try because I'm old and fat and have shit shoulders. I did notice it's been a long time since I did any jumping because I am sooo sore now. It was super fun jumping with the surfboard and with the TT.

I will definitely get more sessions in on this kite and I am very much looking forward to it. I do want to try it on 28m lines for even more jumping.

OLD SCHOOL IS BACK BABY!!!
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southernskip
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Re: Naish 2021

Postby southernskip » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:28 pm

Bought the 11/9 Pivots on a great deal. Accidently sold my Orbits to a mate (gave a price after a few beers and i forgot he had my bank details and a smart phone handy lol). Was looking at Eleveight XS (unavailable), Ozone Edge - $$$$. My review from last session:

Me: Kite instructor. 82kg kiting since 1999. Coming off North Orbit 2020 11/9m, Ozone Edge 2015 9m. Looping and boosting mainly.
Pivot 11 S26 on 25m - Ozone Contact. tuned as recommended so it almost back stalls with bar in and completely depowered on bar out. Flown 5 times.
Pivot 12 S26 on 23m - Switch CX5 bar. Flown twice
North Reach 12 2021 on 23m - North Navigator. Flown twice.
Board: North Atmos 138 Carbon
Conditions: Gusty 20 knots, Shoal Bay, Auckland, New Zealand

All kites very fast and loop well for big kites. I was underpowered on the Pivot 11, nicely powered on the Pivot 12, lit up on the North Reach 12 in the same wind. Surprisingly they dont feel alike at all. The Reach feels more like a detuned Orbit than the Pivot.

The Pivots truck upwind and are very stable and stick like glue to their position in the wind window. Very light on the beach and in the air with a thin leading edge. The construction is awesome and once you remember to click out the inflation valve it is excellent. Ive never had a kite behave so well overhead and be completely depowerable. My Orbits you would never leave at the zenith in light winds less they front stall.

Pivot bar pressure is medium on the 11 in light setting, although every time a gust hits the pressure is directed though your arms rather than the harness as the kite changes angle rather than flies forward which means the bar is very active and punchy in the gusts which isn't great on the shoulders. No matter what I do with the kite. SIN wave, let it run and pull the bar in or go down wind and then board edge. its hard to get it to get a pull through the front lines and build more than medium board speed even if its very windy. Below 20 knots i was mowing lawns. Above I was cruising.
The Pivot 12 is better in this regard. It has the same if not lighter bar pressure in the heavy setting. and a lot less in light setting. Its obvious that work has been done on the 12 to make it feel lighter and fly forwards in the windows a bit quicker. This allows you to ride a bit faster.

On the 12 Reach its a more classic shape. Construction and materials is good although its a much simpler design than the Naishes and like the Orbits you probably have to check the stitching every now and again. The bar pressure is amazing though. Its the lightest bar I've ever flown on a big kite to the point where it takes a bit to get used to just how easy it is to turn although it doesnt turn quite as fast as the pivots unless you really pull one side. It is a bit less stable but pulls a lot harder. You get a good yank when you will the bar in and can achieve a higher board speed. I've flown the 17m Reach and the bar pressure is still light.
None of these kites accelerate like my Orbits or Edge where you quickly reach top speed and can easily loose your board edge of you don't lean back. Id say my Edge 9 probably has more bottom end than the Pivot 11. Pivot 12 similar to Orbit 11.

Jumping on Pivots takes a specific technique. You cant just whip the kites to the Zenith from down low as they don't accelerate fast enough. You need to keep them high the air then turn the kite into the wind and pull the bar in before it hit the zenith. I also have to be careful of not edging the board to hard. There's no big upwards yank but you get a smooth climb followed by a very nice float. Absolutely love the float when in the air. More than the Reach, more than my Orbits. Similar to my Edge but a lot more serene and kite sits wherever you park it. You almost don't even need to heli loop these kites as they never drop you. Landings are very soft as a result. Downloops and heli loops set you down softly rather than give you a sharp acceleration/deceleration. Height wise however i'm not close to my north orbit 2020s on an average jump, Although I have done a couple of big jumps on the Pivot 11 14m/8secs by timing gusts off slow board speed so it is possible. Ramps and gusts = height. Not easy to jump on the flats. Very easy to kill power by turning the kite too quick or over edging the board.

On the Reach 12 it was easier to jump. You just send it to the Zenith and edge hard. More upwards yank. Less float / hangtime. I feel that if both kites had their sweet spot wind, the pivot is probably capable of out jumping the Reach given its higher top end.

Haven't tried on the Pivot 12 but the high wind setting the Pivot 11 feels far quicker though the air and the jumps you can get a lot more yank. I learned in another session It doesn't get interesting until about 25knts. Bar pressure still heavy in the gusts. The kite shape is completely different. You don't see the colored tips at all from the bar. The tips tend to flap a lot under pressure although this doesn't seem to affect performance. Megaloops are fantastic in high winds in this setting. The kite gets nice and low and catches perfectly. Far better than my Orbit 11 2020. Although i would normally be on my Orbit 9 in that wind. Friends watching the loops were adamant i was riding a 9 to the point where they convinced me to unwrap my Pivot 9 for comparison.

So a bit of a head scratcher. I probably wont get on the 9 anytime soon with the summer winds here. My usual kite sizes of 11/9m usable range of 15-35knts might be a 20-40knts in the Pivots. Which is strange as I taught a bunch of students on the 2018-2020 pivots which pulled like trucks in the bigger sizes and I didn't get the 12 as the old ones would easily overpower me.

Summary. Recommend the 12, Not so the 11 unless you are going for loops in 25knts+ and don't mind an active bar. If you are a beginner to intermediate riding in smooth winds these kites would be fantastic as long as you are careful with sizing. They will be great in the surf because of the full depower. Probably great in park riding and unhooking because the stay so still in the air.

I might have made the wrong decision coming off 5 strut kites thinking these kites might improve my limited Woo scores though (pb 16.5m). If anyone else has better results on the Pivot 11 please let me know. I didn't really want a 12 but have to acknowledge that 11m seems like a high wind kite not suitable for light winds unless you are content just cruising or improving skills. Could be a bridal issue so will get it checked out just in case.

Edit: few more sessions on the 11 with a 22m naish torque bar. Slightly easier to jump. No real change in power however. Doesn't seem to be a bridal issue. Had a naish dealer mate try it and he didn't like it either. I don't think I'll fly it again. Sigh
Last edited by southernskip on Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Naish 2021

Postby ThickAir » Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:09 pm

Thanks so much for the detailed review, Skip. Exactly what I was looking for as I'm in the market for a 12 and it's probably going to be a Pivot or Reach. I've avoided the big Pivots before because of the truck-like pull and happy to hear it's much improved this year. Odd that you found the 11m didn't suit you because I've found that to be a sweet size in previous years, just about perfect.

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Re: Naish 2021

Postby southernskip » Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:42 am

@thickair no worries. Will add that both my mates who own the 12s prefer them on the heavier bar setting as the wing tips are less flappy. Mate above tried my 11 and confirmed the 12 on heavy setting equals 11 on light thing. He was burning me off all day despite weighing 10kg more in 20knts :/ Id love the 11 to be better. It's great when you just want to mess around. good beginner kite. But when you are ready to get lit up it just doesn't pull through the front lines anywhere near what a performance kite should.

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Re: Naish 2021

Postby tautologies » Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:38 pm

ThickAir wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:09 pm
Thanks so much for the detailed review, Skip. Exactly what I was looking for as I'm in the market for a 12 and it's probably going to be a Pivot or Reach. I've avoided the big Pivots before because of the truck-like pull and happy to hear it's much improved this year. Odd that you found the 11m didn't suit you because I've found that to be a sweet size in previous years, just about perfect.
I've also always had the 11. The upgrades this year cause me to check out the 12. Also, because I hope to be using a TT more. So far I am very happy with my choice. I do think it will impact my ability to use my large kite in waves, but the session I have had in waves with the 12 was great for a large kite.

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Re: Naish 2021

Postby southernskip » Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:27 am

Yeah I have been on 11s for a long time as well as I like fast kites and was hoping the pivot 11 would be in the ballpark of the the orbit 2021 11 which I don't own but it's a great quick playful kite.

Had seen marketing chat of big kites 12-14 have been updated and kites 10m or smaller are more responsive. Seems like they left this size on the drawing board.

I guess I'll I'll be rolling 17-9 while I figure out what to do with it. Supply issues are a bitch

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Re: Naish 2021

Postby Kitedicted » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:02 am

So the consensus now is that the 12 is better than the 11? (Seems the opinion before was that the 11 was better)

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Re: Naish 2021

Postby tautologies » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:08 am

Kitedicted wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:02 am
So the consensus now is that the 12 is better than the 11? (Seems the opinion before was that the 11 was better)
I've not tried the 11 this year. I went for the 12 because of the changes to the shape was to make it go bigger.

Past few years I've ridden the 11 less and less because I didn't go for waves in lighter wind and the wind was lighter I'd go foiling.

I would assume the 11 is still a better kite for waves. The TT I can't sauce on as I've not ridden a TT much the past few years.


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