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NKB/Duotone trust bar front line lengths

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ichabod
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NKB/Duotone trust bar front line lengths

Postby ichabod » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:37 am

Can anyone tell me the 'official' front line lengths to the split point and whether this has changed over the years since 2015?

Thanks

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Re: NKB/Duotone trust bar front line lengths

Postby longwhitecloud » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:50 am

Be great to get the correct measurements of all lines

For a start people will know how much they have stretched and would show hood customer support.

This isnt the car industry, it is the failing kite industry.. make things easy for customers.. customers before replacement lines sales.

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Re: NKB/Duotone trust bar front line lengths

Postby Qiter » Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:24 am

Good question! The distance that matters is obviously the one from the kite to the split. I have two Duotone/ North bars one from 2018 (22m) and one from 2019 (24m), and surprisingly, the distance FROM THE KITE TO THE SPLIT is not the same, its about 2m longer on the 24m line bar. (its approx. 13.5m on the 22m). I would have thought the longer lines would "add" below the split to keep the kite shape the same..
I hope this helps

ichabod
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Re: NKB/Duotone trust bar front line lengths

Postby ichabod » Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:47 am

Ok that is pretty interesting - I 100% would have expected the front lines above the split to be the same on all line lengths. I heard that the split point changed at some point around 2015 but never that the split differs depending on line lengths :o

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Re: NKB/Duotone trust bar front line lengths

Postby HugoMC » Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:59 am

I have two trust bars (2019/2020) and I flew a mates 2015 bar recently and there is a massive difference in the height of the Y.

I have never used the 2019. Still new in the box but I use the 2020 a lot 👍

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Re: NKB/Duotone trust bar front line lengths

Postby Foil » Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:14 pm

converting this bar to much easier to understand 4 equal line lengths "is easy" and so much better if that conversion includes changing to SK99 lines, and then routine replacing of the lines is massively cheaper, easier to source and understand, and some agree this will be for better lines.

One point I have not seen mentioned before is quite a big consideration, literally,

I have used the click bar since it first came out, and recently moved on to the 2020 duotone version, I bought a new demo bar, and changed the lines to 4 equal length SK99 ones, removing the standard lines and wrapped them on the plastic line winders that I had just removed the Sk99 lines from, to my amazement the standard duotone lines were so bulky they hardly fitted on the winders, and I had to secure them with extra rubber bands to stop them falling off the ends of the winder, so bulky, so must develop much more line drag in strong winds.
Next time you are out in winds over say 25mph get someone to hold up off the sand the 4 pigtail ends as you play out the lines and the the bar, and then walk back to seperate the lines with the ends still being held by your helper, the wind drag bends the lines very forcibly, and in 40mph winds its quite funny to see and feel this effect.
Users will know that when winding in 24mtr standard lines then the last few meters can fall off the bar ends, and the elastic securing bungie's will break after many attempts to force it over the much enlarged ends, if not break then the little plastic end on the bungie's can just pop off, I am quite good at repairing both now over the years of practice.
but no more!
The new lines look like a short line set on the click bar, they take up so little room I could fit on a set of 50 mtr lines if I tried to I guess.
All that's needed to convert the click bar to this "new" system is one short standard SK99 500kg line to fit from the end point at the quick release,
this needs to be a spliced end to engage around the small steel stop ring, to find this then look under your quick release loop to see it clearly sitting there in a plastic cup just where your little white ceramic balls are, this line then travels up inside your large PU depower "line" and pops out of the top ending in another spliced loop to connect with a matching spliced loop on a standard length 500kg power line right up to the kite.
I have made myself 6 spare short connecting lines, for good reason, as this section of line is prone to fast premature wear from trapped sand or grit hidden inside, if this area inside the quick release and depower PU lines is not rinsed each and every time you get back from the beach.
out of interest for yourself, just pull this (standard)red line down and out from the quick release when you get time to see the line wear at this point, it may shock you! and this is your safety line, and a centre line, so boosting and looping weak link if worn. scary!

I do have the exact line length of this extra short line, and will give it to anyone confident enough to do their own high quality splicing, there are a few considerations to understand before going ahead with this conversion, easy to do but not for everyone. a tiny rat tail needle file is needed to remove the tiny plastic molding edge inside the top edge of the long PU depower tube, this need removing and smoothing out for easy smooth quick release operation, as the new spliced line to line connection needs to slide without obstruction when the release is fired off.
and to make this replacement set very easy to fit there is one brand supplier of SK99 lines that come with the required red ball stopper exactly in the right place, and a ready to use required spliced end to couple up to the new short line, so a no brainer for me to get these off the shelf lines, at around £125 or less for a full set.

ichabod
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Re: NKB/Duotone trust bar front line lengths

Postby ichabod » Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:46 pm

I've done some measurements on various bars from split point to kite:

2015 24m Quad bar: 17.84m
2016 22m Quad bar: 15.84m
2018 Clickbar: 15.84m

I've no idea if the newer 24m bars are also like this but it does seem like they added the extra 2m at the wrong end of the lines!

ichabod
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Re: NKB/Duotone trust bar front line lengths

Postby ichabod » Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:45 pm

Foil wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:14 pm
out of interest for yourself, just pull this (standard)red line down and out from the quick release when you get time to see the line wear at this point, it may shock you! and this is your safety line, and a centre line, so boosting and looping weak link if worn. scary!
I don't think the red safety line is in use unless you release.. so shouldn't fail during loops etc and even if it did it would have no effect. The tension is held only on the main strong middle line below the Y - at least it is on the trust bar, perhaps the clickbar works differently actually

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Re: NKB/Duotone trust bar front line lengths

Postby Kitemenn » Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:38 pm

ichabod wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:45 pm
Foil wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:14 pm
out of interest for yourself, just pull this (standard)red line down and out from the quick release when you get time to see the line wear at this point, it may shock you! and this is your safety line, and a centre line, so boosting and looping weak link if worn. scary!
I don't think the red safety line is in use unless you release.. so shouldn't fail during loops etc and even if it did it would have no effect. The tension is held only on the main strong middle line below the Y - at least it is on the trust bar, perhaps the clickbar works differently actually
Safetyline is never loaded. It's an additional line if one of the others fail. Nevertheless it can have wear without usages and should be checked occasionally

Foil
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Posts: 1447
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Weight: 91kg
Local Beach: New Brighton near Liverpool. Open sea with big low tide deep lagoon
and regular at Rhosneigr and Newbrough on Anglesey
Favorite Beaches: New Brighton, Rhosneigr, Fleetwood, Newbrough, Blackrock sands
lake Como (Italy) El Medano
Style: kite foiler since 2017 Ttip since 2000
Gear: My rule to gear choice is "IF IT DONT BOOST ITS NO USE"
Groove Skates 110cm 2022 editions
kraken mast systems 103k and 93k.
Kraken fuse 703k
Duotone SLS Evo's -- 11mtr/9mtr/7mtr/6mtr/ 4mtr RRD.
Duotone 2022 click bars x2,my own custom made lines fitted,
(modified lines now available for the flite99 shod duotone bars)

Bar lines made up to any length in a choice of strengths, power lines, trim lines, pigtails, leader lines, bridal lines, elasticated lines, I make and fit them all, free fit and tune service,
quick turnaround,drop me a message, find me on messenger, Colin Moore.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 116 times
Been thanked: 324 times

Re: NKB/Duotone trust bar front line lengths

Postby Foil » Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:32 pm

ichabod wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:45 pm
Foil wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:14 pm
out of interest for yourself, just pull this (standard)red line down and out from the quick release when you get time to see the line wear at this point, it may shock you! and this is your safety line, and a centre line, so boosting and looping weak link if worn. scary!
I don't think the red safety line is in use unless you release.. so shouldn't fail during loops etc and even if it did it would have no effect. The tension is held only on the main strong middle line below the Y - at least it is on the trust bar, perhaps the clickbar works differently actually
intresting,
the red line on the 2020 duotone click bar is loaded.
its attached to the 500kg front line above the stopper ball approx 11mtrs from the kite, and that top 11mtr line part is the standard cream/white hairy line stuff, below the stop ball its red line, and goes all the way down and through the center of the PU power tube, it exits the base of the quick release, where the chicken loop sits, all parts fully loaded.all the time.
fire off the quick release and bar shoots off up the red line to meet the red stopper ball, flagging out the kite.

from what you have seen its not the same bar as mine.or not set up the same as this model.


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