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I get your points...truth is most people are not that technical and tbh Antons version makes sense and basically says the same what you guys saying (only simplifying it and not using dynamic changes to only confuse people).

Fact is you need the lines tention in order to create the energy to boost high. With slak lines or lines with drag you have to waiste energy to tention the lines and therefore energy to boost.

I like the note from kitexpert by taking rider weight into account, I agree with this, nevertheless main thing remains technique. I see small boys weighing 60kg boosting waaaayyy higher than me

Faxie wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:52 pm

Kitemenn wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:39 pm

Faxie wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:17 pm

Would've preferred he explained it correctly...

But nice to see some measurements.

Enlighten us...give us your view! Would be interesting

Mobile, so not in the mood for long texts. First of all...kinda funny that I have to elaborate, but Anton does not. Second, I already explained some things in the past. Nobody cared.

Short version: Tension is an effect, not a cause. The lift/tension diagram is wrong, doesn't take drag into account and ignores that the tension vector can be seen from the riders side too. He also seems to regard the window as a static thing (also in his other videos), which it is not the case, plus bringing the kite to the edge to lose power doesn't sound to logical when you have to edge hard to build tension and jump high, now does it? Also the LE pinching is a result from changing absolute and relative aoa in combination with the bridle shape, not from simply more power, and it certainly doesn't catapults you (the lines don't either btw)

But as I said, it's nice to see some actual force values acting on the hook.

Out of interest, are his exercises wrong then? ( in case you haven't seen the videos, they are mainly about building even foot pressure to engage a longer edge of the board and learning to ride with power in the kite in the first video and learning to pulse the kite forwards with line tension in the second video)

I don't know the enough to challenge or backup Anton's explanation but his explanations do flow into his exercises for learning and if they are correct I'd be happy for someone to be simplifying the facts - particularly when translating into a second language.

nothing2seehere wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:28 am

Faxie wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:52 pm

Kitemenn wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:39 pm

Enlighten us...give us your view! Would be interesting

Mobile, so not in the mood for long texts. First of all...kinda funny that I have to elaborate, but Anton does not. Second, I already explained some things in the past. Nobody cared.

Short version: Tension is an effect, not a cause. The lift/tension diagram is wrong, doesn't take drag into account and ignores that the tension vector can be seen from the riders side too. He also seems to regard the window as a static thing (also in his other videos), which it is not the case, plus bringing the kite to the edge to lose power doesn't sound to logical when you have to edge hard to build tension and jump high, now does it? Also the LE pinching is a result from changing absolute and relative aoa in combination with the bridle shape, not from simply more power, and it certainly doesn't catapults you (the lines don't either btw)

But as I said, it's nice to see some actual force values acting on the hook.

Out of interest, are his exercises wrong then? ( in case you haven't seen the videos, they are mainly about building even foot pressure to engage a longer edge of the board and learning to ride with power in the kite in the first video and learning to pulse the kite forwards with line tension in the second video)

I don't know the enough to challenge or backup Anton's explanation but his explanations do flow into his exercises for learning and if they are correct I'd be happy for someone to be simplifying the facts - particularly when translating into a second language.

No, as I said, his techniques are very good.

I was struggling for quite a bit to jump higher than 7m. I watched every video, tutorial, I asked people on the beach... I was sure to do the right thing, but couldn't get higher than 7m.
I bought Anton's video (Learning to Fly episode 1 and 2). It is maybe not hard physic science, but it was the key for my progression. In my first session after watching his video and applying his advice, I gained 2 meters.
I still have room to improve, but board control and handling tension in the lines was important for me.

I've seen Anton's videos and they are indeed excellent advice how to jump higher. And this new video of significance of line tension is very much on point practically.

It is obvious he knows how to jump high and he can give good advice how to do it, that is the most important thing.

Thank you for sharing Anton! Great advice! Today I had gusty and choppy conditions and I paid special attentions to your recommendations and was rewarded with better jumps and kiteloops! Thanks again!

Had a quick look at the video yesterday, and remembered the main advice about line tension, today, during my session. Couldn’t believe what I was rewarded with, riding my 17m. For sure the best result I ever got from it.
Sometimes, one must get a reminder on basics, to keep improving! Thank you Anton, I don’t pay attention to the exactness of your explanation, but to the riders feeling, and that is effective.

About line elasticity: I agree that today lines are mostly non elastic, but that has not been always the case. Before, let’s say 2005, lines were kind of elastic. That affected the kite control, in some bad ways, for sure, but did have some positive effects during jumps as well. I remember clearly that during transition jumps, there was a bungy effect that permitted to get a kind of “rebound” into the other direction. I felt the loss of this property after getting my first real good kite, that was equipped with rigid lines (North Rhino 4).
I’ve never experimented again that feeling during transition jumps. But also never have had again a problem with lines becoming uneven after a strong session!

Flyingseb wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:48 pm

About line elasticity: I agree that today lines are mostly non elastic, but that has not been always the case. Before, let’s say 2005, lines were kind of elastic.

That’s interesting because the materials we currently have where already used for power kites way before 2000s.
I remember as a kid I flew powerkites around 1995 and we already had dynema and spectra lines (although super expensive for me as a kid). Also you could get cheaper Kevlar lines but everyone hated people showing up with Kevlar since those would cut through the dynema/spectra lines everyone else uses.

So we already had 3 non-stretcht line types since 1995, probably earlier. With 2 actual good ones (I think Kevlar wasn’t uv resistant and looping a kite made it almost unable to steer because they had a lot of friction)
Wonder why they weren’t used or if it was something else that did the stretching.

leeuwen wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:53 am

Flyingseb wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:48 pm

About line elasticity: I agree that today lines are mostly non elastic, but that has not been always the case. Before, let’s say 2005, lines were kind of elastic.

That’s interesting because the materials we currently have where already used for power kites way before 2000s.
I remember as a kid I flew powerkites around 1995 and we already had dynema and spectra lines (although super expensive for me as a kid). Also you could get cheaper Kevlar lines but everyone hated people showing up with Kevlar since those would cut through the dynema/spectra lines everyone else uses.

So we already had 3 non-stretcht line types since 1995, probably earlier. With 2 actual good ones (I think Kevlar wasn’t uv resistant and looping a kite made it almost unable to steer because they had a lot of friction)
Wonder why they weren’t used or if it was something else that did the stretching.

From my experience, lines were much poorer quality before 2005, although I agree, being made of the same material. Some were simply not prestretched correctly, the max load was lower (making them more elastic too). It was possible to end a session with one of the rear line being 20cm longer than the other.
We certainly are on the same opinion: today’s lines are really strong and stretch is not noticeable!

Kitemenn wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:58 am

I like the note from kitexpert by taking rider weight into account, I agree with this, nevertheless main thing remains technique. I see small boys weighing 60kg boosting waaaayyy higher than me

I can go as high or higher than the featherweight guys, but they get more hang time. According to Woo, anyway.