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Foreigners going to Brasil please read

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Matteo V
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Re: Foreigners going to Brasil please read

Postby Matteo V » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:52 pm

Havre wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:44 pm
Quite a few countries now got stricter measures than they did some months ago even if there are no increase in deaths or people in intensive care at hospitals anywhere. It's quite baffling.
Scoring political points is very important and you can score more political points by doing more of what was seen as good. It is, however, a diminishing return which in the long run can lead to negative returns. This will be fascinating to watch in the future, as there becomes a greater divide between those who understand the diminishing returns, and those who attempt to inflate those diminishing returns for their own purpose.

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Re: Foreigners going to Brasil please read

Postby Havre » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:15 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:52 pm
Havre wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:44 pm
Quite a few countries now got stricter measures than they did some months ago even if there are no increase in deaths or people in intensive care at hospitals anywhere. It's quite baffling.
Scoring political points is very important and you can score more political points by doing more of what was seen as good. It is, however, a diminishing return which in the long run can lead to negative returns. This will be fascinating to watch in the future, as there becomes a greater divide between those who understand the diminishing returns, and those who attempt to inflate those diminishing returns for their own purpose.
I am more afraid of the long term effect related to those kind of issues than Covid-19. I do believe there is a real chance of a complete break down in trust between the population and politicians, media, "experts" etc.

Even in Norway when people generally speaking will follow advice from the government, police etc - because relatively speaking there are few restrictions, advice etc. given - so whenever the government says something you tend to give them the benefit of the doubt even if you personally disagree - obviously cry wolf a few times too many and that trust is broken. I don't fear for a tiny irrelevant country like Norway, but I do fear for the long term effects in places like the US, UK, Spain, France etc.

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Bille
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Re: Foreigners going to Brasil please read

Postby Bille » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:31 pm

UKSurf wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:30 pm
...

Great to hear you made it through and I hope your lungs make some kind of recovery. As you have said the mortality is only part of the story with COVID19, it can cause extensive damage to the body and ontop of that there are the unknown long term consequences. There is no way i want to get this and I have already made the decision that if my employer asks me to do things that I consider high risk I will quit my job. Health is much more important than money.
I really was worried about the lungs, and heart as well ; but i bin
doing some light-weight hiking trails , up several hundred feet, and
i think recovery is gonna be was less time than i originally thought.
The first day was Really bad --- thought my lungs were gonna explode
and i had only gone 100-ft up a trail several hundred ft high hill ; slowed
way down and made it to the top , with the lungs not complaining too much.
No blood came up, when i forced a cough !!

I'm Hoping the EKG i take in the near future ; it will be not so bad
results as well ? If not, then my flying days will be over for a while.
I've measured well over 160 beats/min in the past while flying HG in
close quarters to earth ; so if the heart ain't up to par, i won't push
it .

One thing i know for absolutely Sure ; it's going to take a LOT, to
get me out of this awesome mood i bin in, since that corona bug
got evicted from my body !!! :D

Bille
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UKSurf (Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:06 pm)
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Blackened
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Re: Foreigners going to Brasil please read

Postby Blackened » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:17 am

Matteo V wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:37 pm
omg wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:15 pm
When do you pull your head out of your...?!? It’s not all about the death rates (seems like some people here are trying to fix the numbers for better), it’s the possibility of other long term symptoms as well! No ordinary flu will f*** up your brains, lungs etc. the way covid19 does, happens to younger ones as well, and that’s a fact.
How often does this happen after becoming infected, asymptomatic or otherwise, with Covid19?

And are you saying that Covid19 is the only virus that has after effects? Because every single viral infection will do some damage to the body and it's cells. This is especially prevalent when other health factors are in play, again with every single infection that a human being will come across. I mean the flu actually kills people! And it can't do that without doing damage to the body and its cells. To pretend that covid-19 is unique in this, is absolutely a distortion of the reality.
Unfortunately, Matteo is actually correct in saying that the flu does kill people. As with just about any respiratory illness, the flu can have severe and lasting effects, just like Covid19.

Speculation warning: I suspect Covid19's long term issues won't be that different than other respiratory viruses. There have been reports of some pretty wild ones, but I significantly doubt those are actually related to a respiratory illness. There really isn't enough data available on long term cases.
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Re: Foreigners going to Brasil please read

Postby Blackened » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:45 am

Matteo V wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:24 am

The flu and covid-19 are in no way shape or form calculated or counted in the same manner. The attention, let alone the scrutiny, is on no way comparable with covid 19 to the way flu deaths were tallied pre 2020. That is blatantly obvious to any sane person.
Oh my dear Matteo, you are a bit lost. This was explained in my very first interaction with Havre, which then led you on your rant. Do keep up.

Matteo V wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:24 am
What you have given me is more insight into the cognitive dissonance and irrationality from the leftist extremist point of view, than I could have ever hoped for.

You illustrate very clearly that there are those who will not question the narrative, to any degree, so long as they choose to believe that narrative. While this seems redundant, it is actually a very circular explanation of why this virus is being treated so differently. No other virus from swine flu or SARS or any other, has had a narrative pushed by those with a political agenda. I think you have demonstrated that the politics are what matters and what is different about this virus vs all of the other viruses that we have endured in modern times.

So I very much appreciate your participation and exposure of the underlying causes for the sensationalism behind this virus and its inaccurate narrative.
I don't think you understand what cognitive dissonance means. Did you hear Tucker Carlson use it the other day? I don't think you should listen to him anymore. I know he wears a bowtie, but that doesn't mean he possesses any intelligence.

To address your assertion on other outbreaks and the veracity of the coverage of Covid19, perhaps you could support your argument using peer reviewed articles from reputable journals? If you would put this in the form of an essay with diagrams and footnotes, it would greatly help to move your position forward.

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Re: Foreigners going to Brasil please read

Postby knotwindy » Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:12 pm

While this bickering, (sorry, but you do seem to talking at each rather than with each other) is semi-interesting, you both know there are real problems out there, right?
Bigger picture stuff. Probably 6 or 7 near term human extinction events are somewhat (percentage and timeline unknown) likely
While you are arguing about nonsense numbers from the past relative to nonsense numbers marketed now?

it’s a bit like watching two people argue about where the deck chairs should go on ship that’s sinking.

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Re: Foreigners going to Brasil please read

Postby Adventure Logs » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:22 pm

knotwindy wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:12 pm
While this bickering, (sorry, but you do seem to talking at each rather than with each other) is semi-interesting, you both know there are real problems out there, right?
Bigger picture stuff. Probably 6 or 7 near term human extinction events are somewhat (percentage and timeline unknown) likely
While you are arguing about nonsense numbers from the past relative to nonsense numbers marketed now?

it’s a bit like watching two people argue about where the deck chairs should go on ship that’s sinking.
Jesus can we stop with the fear mongering??? Sorry the world isn’t ending chicken little. I feel sorry for anyone who lives their life in this much fear. :roll:

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Re: Foreigners going to Brasil please read

Postby Matteo V » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:48 am

Adventure Logs wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:22 pm
Jesus can we stop with the fear mongering??? Sorry the world isn’t ending chicken little. I feel sorry for anyone who lives their life in this much fear. :roll:
Some people are afraid the world is going to end.

Some people are happy that every day is a day less until the world ends.

But none of them are likely to actually see the end of it all.

Matteo V
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Re: Foreigners going to Brasil please read

Postby Matteo V » Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:04 am

Blackened wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:45 am
Matteo V wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:24 am

The flu and covid-19 are in no way shape or form calculated or counted in the same manner. The attention, let alone the scrutiny, is on no way comparable with covid 19 to the way flu deaths were tallied pre 2020. That is blatantly obvious to any sane person.
Oh my dear Matteo, you are a bit lost. This was explained in my very first interaction with Havre, which then led you on your rant. Do keep up.

Matteo V wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:24 am
What you have given me is more insight into the cognitive dissonance and irrationality from the leftist extremist point of view, than I could have ever hoped for.

You illustrate very clearly that there are those who will not question the narrative, to any degree, so long as they choose to believe that narrative. While this seems redundant, it is actually a very circular explanation of why this virus is being treated so differently. No other virus from swine flu or SARS or any other, has had a narrative pushed by those with a political agenda. I think you have demonstrated that the politics are what matters and what is different about this virus vs all of the other viruses that we have endured in modern times.

So I very much appreciate your participation and exposure of the underlying causes for the sensationalism behind this virus and its inaccurate narrative.
I don't think you understand what cognitive dissonance means. Did you hear Tucker Carlson use it the other day? I don't think you should listen to him anymore. I know he wears a bowtie, but that doesn't mean he possesses any intelligence.

To address your assertion on other outbreaks and the veracity of the coverage of Covid19, perhaps you could support your argument using peer reviewed articles from reputable journals? If you would put this in the form of an essay with diagrams and footnotes, it would greatly help to move your position forward.
You have dodged nearly every challenge I have made to you. The underlying psychology of this is what I am interested in understanding. Can you help me with that. Or do you truly believe that "go write a paper" is a genuine response to a challenge.

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Re: Foreigners going to Brasil please read

Postby Blackened » Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:04 am

Matteo V wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:04 am

You have dodged nearly every challenge I have made to you. The underlying psychology of this is what I am interested in understanding. Can you help me with that. Or do you truly believe that "go write a paper" is a genuine response to a challenge.
You haven't made any challenges. You said something that implied a very complex situation was exceptionally simple and obvious. I asked for history and research. Here is your original statement:

"Never before have we treated a new strain of virus with a less than 5% or so mortality rate in this manner. The elderly, or sick and already dying, have never before had their comorbidity ignored in favor of one of the hundreds of viruses that would have killed them anyway. Again I ask, what has changed?"

I don't know what has changed. Based on your research in epidemiology and pandemics of the 20th century, you can answer it for all of us. Would you provide a detailed analysis with citations on what is different about this virus and why or why shouldn't we be treating it differently? Thank you. I look forward to reading it.


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