Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

How to make 4:1 Trim System on 2020 North Navigator Bar

Forum for kitesurfers
knot_moving
Frequent Poster
Posts: 464
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:13 am
Kiting since: 2009
Gear: kites: OR Flites & Cabrinha Velocity
Underground FLX 138, Slingshot foil, Mako Duke, Jimmy Lewis Flight Deck
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: NW Florida
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: How to make 4:1 Trim System on 2020 North Navigator Bar

Postby knot_moving » Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:58 pm

There are more than one threads on here about building bars and quick releases ...
I really do like messing around with this stuff.
One thing I always keep in the front of my mind is this is still an extreme sport - so if I a messing around with something that is part of the safety system I am super careful
These users thanked the author knot_moving for the post:
JimmyRyder (Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:25 am)
Rating: 8.33%

nixmatters
Frequent Poster
Posts: 398
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:38 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Style: freeride. started foiling, not there yet
Gear: mostly custom made
Brand Affiliation: None currently
Has thanked: 149 times
Been thanked: 82 times

Re: How to make 4:1 Trim System on 2020 North Navigator Bar

Postby nixmatters » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:20 pm

JimmyRyder wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:43 pm
"

We may start a curent here to "build-own-bars" rather then pay 600-700 bucks on them.
:D :D :D
There is a very loooooong post on that! :lol:

knot_moving
Frequent Poster
Posts: 464
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:13 am
Kiting since: 2009
Gear: kites: OR Flites & Cabrinha Velocity
Underground FLX 138, Slingshot foil, Mako Duke, Jimmy Lewis Flight Deck
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: NW Florida
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: How to make 4:1 Trim System on 2020 North Navigator Bar

Postby knot_moving » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:32 pm

:) I really do like messing around building up bars and stuff. And always keep in the front of my mind that this is an extreme sport.

So I am super careful if I am messing with some part of the safety systems!

and yeah there are a few really long threads on bars and chicken loops and quick releases and and and ...
These users thanked the author knot_moving for the post:
JimmyRyder (Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:26 am)
Rating: 8.33%

OzBungy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2382
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:35 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Re: How to make 4:1 Trim System on 2020 North Navigator Bar

Postby OzBungy » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:55 am

Excuse the question but, why do you want a 4:1 trim bar?

I use 2:1 long trim bars on my LEI. It's no effort at all to pull in or release the trim. I couldn't imagine adding the complexity of 2-3 pulleys just to reduce the pulling force.

The long trim gives me access to a huge wind range and simplifies rigging decisions. I just rig for maximum grunt and pull in the trimmer to suit.

My understanding is that racers on foil kites use 4:1 trimmer so they can easily change trim on their huge foil kites while staying locked in their fast stance. That's hardly a necessity for freeriding in general or LEI kites.

PS Brummel splices are excellent for pigtails, especially when you want a short bury and when you want the bury from both ends to be side by side in the same core. You need both kinds of brummel splices depending on how you want to make your pigtail.

I wouldn't use Brummel splices on thick line. The result is thick and ugly and too easy to pull apart.

You can make consistent Brummel splices by measuring consistently and maknig a batch of pigtails all at once. You can't make things to a precise length using Brummel splices. It takes a fair bit of trial and error to work out how much extra length to allow for the thickness of the bury. It's much more accurate to adjust a normal splice to length and pin it and sew it.

User avatar
JimmyRyder
Rare Poster
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:36 am
Kiting since: 2012
Weight: 220
Local Beach: Atlanta - GA
Ocean Side - GA, SC, NC
Tampa - FL
Favorite Beaches: Tampa - USA
Cape Hatteras - USA
Charleston - USA
Tarifa - Spain
Lefkada - Greece
Rhodos - Greece
Gokceada - Turkey
Urla - Turkey
Alacati - Turkey
Cesme - Turkey
Soma Bay - Egypt
Elgouna - Egypt
Marsala - Italy
Mamaia - Romania
Sulina - Romania
Style: FreeRide; Snowkiting;
Gear: 2020 North - REACH - 10m
2020 Liquid Force - NV - 13.5m
2019 Liquid Force - SOLO - 15.5m

2020 Liquid Force - ABSOLUTE - 140cm
2020 Liquid Force - POD 4'4 - HydroBoard
2020 Liquid Force - IMPULSE - Hydrofoil
2020 Liquid Force - MESSENGER - Surfboard
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Atlanta / Tampa
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: How to make 4:1 Trim System on 2020 North Navigator Bar

Postby JimmyRyder » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:12 pm

Ozbugy if you look at my initial postings you would see why.

Just so you know I've been riding since 2012 starting on SnowKiting (with RamAir kites) and transitioning to LEI and KiteBoarding (TwinTip) then later on to KiteSurfing (waves with surfboard) => so we're not talking here about the principle of what's best 2:1,... 3:1,... 4:1 rigging - it's a matter of personal preference.

I've started this Topic because me and few friends switched from KiteBoarding and KiteSurfing towards mainly KiteFoiling and eventually some Racing in near future.

Some of my friends went so far to get a SeatHarness too (I'd like to stick with my Majestic hardshell for now works just fine for me).

In terms of bars, we do have regular bars (I've got an LFK Mission Control V3, Airush Cleat Bar and North Navigator bar) when we play TwinTipping,
=> but for KiteFoilinig I've got a +60cm Groove Carbon bar (weights only 280g and should be about 450-500g when fully rigged)

The Groove bar will be Foil-Designated bar and therefore I like the 4:1 rigging on this one - if you look at FoilKiters and RaceKiters, many of them migrated towards the RaceSetup (4:1) rigging, some also 3:1 rigging and it's just personal preference per each one.

Now I guess you understand where this Topic is coming from, but better of start from beginning of the postings chronologically to have a logical outcome up to the last post.

Most brand bar have aprox. 50-55 cm throw on the Depower (best for most arm reach even if you're shorter or taller (excluding the Shift Drive from Ocean Rodeo, Direct Drive from Liquid Force and Click Bar from Duotone which have way more than that).

The 4:1 rigging is not about increasing the length of Trimming because too much pull on that and you're Front Stalling the kite.
The 4:1 riggiing is easier on pull force and with a longer TrimLine (below the Cleat) offer a closer reach so no more changing the stance when need to trim.

Best is to try riding a Cab, Naish, Airush, etc kite & bar and right after ride a Core kite & bar => you'll see the difference (Sensor bar from Core is standard 4:1 rigging)

I hope this brings you up to speed with what we're talking about in this Topic.

Ride safe,

Jimmy


OzBungy wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:55 am
Excuse the question but, why do you want a 4:1 trim bar?

I use 2:1 long trim bars on my LEI. It's no effort at all to pull in or release the trim. I couldn't imagine adding the complexity of 2-3 pulleys just to reduce the pulling force.

The long trim gives me access to a huge wind range and simplifies rigging decisions. I just rig for maximum grunt and pull in the trimmer to suit.

My understanding is that racers on foil kites use 4:1 trimmer so they can easily change trim on their huge foil kites while staying locked in their fast stance. That's hardly a necessity for freeriding in general or LEI kites.

PS Brummel splices are excellent for pigtails, especially when you want a short bury and when you want the bury from both ends to be side by side in the same core. You need both kinds of brummel splices depending on how you want to make your pigtail.

I wouldn't use Brummel splices on thick line. The result is thick and ugly and too easy to pull apart.

You can make consistent Brummel splices by measuring consistently and maknig a batch of pigtails all at once. You can't make things to a precise length using Brummel splices. It takes a fair bit of trial and error to work out how much extra length to allow for the thickness of the bury. It's much more accurate to adjust a normal splice to length and pin it and sew it.


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Azzieo, Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Kemperman, Matt Air, Peter_Frank, xoen and 25 guests