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Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby PullStrings » Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:18 pm

I'm dying laughing !!!!!

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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby longwhitecloud » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:11 am

I know of some professional windsurf racers that have moved to winging too. They think the idea of travelling to contests with wing equipment and not windsurfing equipment will be a dream come true.

What toby said is true and some of the brands are activly encouraging the move to their kiting riders in order to move into a less stagnent market created by well.... themselves.

You just cant argue against the fact that kiting equipment has progressivly been designed to be upsold to the point where people simply cannot afford it any longer, with little or no support for grassroots movements any longer.. the lifeblood of sports like this.

Kitesurfing has gone exactly the way windsurfing did, something I have heard Robby Naish comment on also.

This has resulted in a totally different demographic than it had, it also lost its self advertising appeal at the beach.

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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby downunder » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:46 am

Yep, exactly right.

Clearly visible on my local. Not only that, it is almost impossible to sell any gear with no huge loss.

See this:
200 views and not a single offer. So I picked it up, its fantastic kite.

And now have a look at FB racing second hand gear group and prices. No one can afford this, they are dreaming to sell anything...


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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby OzBungy » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:22 am

Our local windsurfers are having a similar discussion about the decline in windsurfing and getting the kids into it and all the rest. It's all rubbish.

None of these sports are declining.They were never big in the first place. They all have a bit of a surge shortly after the start and then drop back a bit.

The simple fact of the matter is that wind sports in general are fringe sports. The total numbers of people available to do them are pretty much static. All you can really do is shuffle around the market share.

Fortunately the majority of the market are older men with a bit of disposable income.

Simple facts:
- The general public are totally unaware and totally disinterested in wind sports. They can't even tell them apart.
- For most people the sports are too hard, or you have to get wet (it's cold and sharks eat you), or you have to be a super athlete (that is true in my case).
- It an order of magnitude too expensive, not for people to do, but to think of spending the money. "f*** that's a lot of money!" (That's ironic when people will spend much more money on going to some tropical resort for a short holiday and a crappy tattoo, or spend money supporting "their" football team)
- The "yoof" generally don't have the attention span to get good at things that take more than 5 minutes effort.
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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby airsail » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:26 am

I have been following the Facebook kite racing secondhand page too, so many R1’s and Sonic Race kites being put up for sale. Prices are reasonable for near new kites but as there is virtually no market for them it will be a tough sell for most.
But I guess that is the same for most sporting goods used in racing, little market once superseded.
Wings are flooding into the market, plenty of secondhand stuff coming up too, seems to be smaller sizes where people found they actually need a bigger size than first thought.

Though kitefoiling will always rule the light air, a 5 mtr wing still needs 12-15 knots to get going.

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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby longwhitecloud » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:35 am

That is a great example of what happens when you try to turn a sport into an elitist class based sport. No one wants the equipment that might even be 1% slower. Ridiculous depreciation.

"The "yoof" generally don't have the attention span to get good at things that take more than 5 minutes effort." Get yourself on Instagram, you will change your mind about this. The riding level is off the scale in so many board sports right now.

There are 2.5 million estimated surfers in Australia I read... cheaper.

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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby dracop » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:47 am

There are more kiters than ever at primary spots like Maui, San Francisco, Tarifa, Cape Town, etc

As for the manufacturers, they dug their own graves by obsessing with a micro niche of the sport (wakestyle) that most riders cannot go anywhere near. Certainly the avg spectator does not understand how hard a handlepass is vs a backroll. Even now wakestyle is massively over represented at the Team rider level but no one is watching for the most part. The disconnect between the brands and the kiter+general population groups is largely the fault of the brands. Most of them need to ease off the paid superpro model and start recruiting more beach ambassadors with more brand demo days to show people their product.

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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby a99 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:05 am

A think winging is just freshest fashion case. With kite you can do tt, wave, hydrofoil. With wing only winging or skatewinging. Winging will be niche as it is. And main problem i think its big and heavy board need that is not practical. But if soon will be released good pumped sups and wingboards than maybe if will go little bit wider in population.

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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby wvickers » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:28 pm

Ummm, there are alot of used Wings now available Honestly though, for those of us who love to be on the water kiting and kite foiling, most of us would prefer that our local sites don't have further growth in the kite market. i.e. it would be less intrusive to have a bunch of Wings and large boards on the beach and line up. At a surf break and on a typical beach or grass area, we can only handle so many 20-24 m kite lines on the beach/grass and in the air.

I am one of those few who does all of the disciplines including old school strapped in windsurfing on up to SUP paddling, including getting one 5.3 wing. Sailboat racing is still the water discipline I enjoy the most....which is alot more expense and time effort.
Probably wing foiling the least, however, it's enjoyable and a nice way to play in the swells if the wind is right or sketchy for a kite.
I actually enjoy SUP paddling and behind the boat wakeboarding more than a Wing foil. Perhaps that will change as the gear improves.
Doesn't mean I don't enjoy Winging, but it quickly lost it's luster for me comparing it to other water disciplines.

In some areas, some have moved right back into windsurfing after wing foiling the last year....especially now that we have some really nice windsurf foiling rigs that can get down to lighter air. I do think though, that wing foiling will improve some in the next 2 years, as the boards lighten up, foils get higher aspect/faster with less stall, more fun in marginal conditions, and the wingy tip shapes improve. (it's already happening as some are using the Moses 633 or 695 with a light board and a wing in 20 kt +...but we need more evolution of the Wings themselves toward an actually aerodynamic shape that can be pumped) Please don't call the current shapes efficient.

Windsurf foiling is light years more fun than Wing foiling in most conditions...roughly 70% in my opinion. Just ask the few who have done both reasonably well, but they are over on the windsurf foiling sites. Yes, there are some windsurfers who see wing foiling as the holy grail, as it is alot easier than having to have a van or trailer to carry all the booms, masts, and boards. Winging carries a smaller foot print but it also has similar speeds, upwind ability, can make swelling riding easier, and ability to do tricks is also comparable to Windsurf foiling. So, I can see more and more windsurfers getting into Wing foiling, and I am worried windsurfing may go extinct if windsurf foiling doesn't take off Worldwide.

I think the frequent poster who started this thread might be clinically depressed on this day...or perhaps anyone can have an opinion because their geography and desires are different. Times are tough right now and our sport and ourselves have been greatly impacted. Though there are some who's locale is much different than spots what most of us see. Like Gunnar's spot and a number of folks who only have a Lake to get out on with a poor kite launch. Wing foiling does have it's place on this planet, and I think it will stay and hopefully improve.
Wake style kiting has understandably drifted into a smaller niche and really wasn't that spectator friendly for the large masses anyway. I was much too old to get really good at it since I didn't kite until my 40s.

At a beach up on Great Lakes/USA a few weekends ago with travel to visit family. Got to spend 6 hours at a local spot, with a much different type of folks than my home spots. I was hearing how 2 wing foilers were in Love with it saying "it's the best thing ever, much better than kite foiling" These were cool dudes who were mid 50s. Turns out neither were much good at kite foiling, yet at least, and were finding it frustrating. Which happens, as it can have a long learning curve till it's bliss and not getting hurt doing huge air or playing in large conditions. They really liked wing foiling as they were not YET competent at kite foiling and the crashes didn't hurt so much Would be interesting if they kite foiled for 2 more years and then compared it to winging. But each discipline still has it's place !

Everyone on the beach that weekend was watching the TwinTippers boosting over the 6-8 ft waves (started off with 3-4 ft mush break) and especially the kite foiler boosting huge air off the waves and riding the swells. I'm not sure, but I don't think a single beach goer even noticed the two wing foilers, except when one of them got smashed by a wave trying to get his rig out of the shore break after the session as the waves built. Of note, probably only 1% of these beach goers would actually bother to try and learn either discipline (fitness, desire, finances, or they just enjoy golf and sitting on the beach)

In order of fun for me in that side shore winds 20-25 mph with a 3-4 ft mushy break up to 6 + footers with a nice curl, when I had the rarely opportunity and time to experience all disciplines

-Kite foiling boosting off the waves and riding the break with a 6 m kite. Was so much fun and heavenly. And can do that and have fun in 10-15 mph breeze if some waves left. Been doing it for 5 years now and still love it. Leaves me with enough energy afterwards to enjoy family time
-Twin Tipping with big boosting and some loops Was almost as fun too and slightly better workout. I have only kite foil looped twice, and just am too worried that I may break the mast or a wing, and has potential for some real carnage in my mid 50 years of age. Big boosting conditions on a twin tip I'm exhausted afterward. Pleasant exhaustion, but makes it hard to say "yes honey, let's take the boat our for some wakeboarding too or go for a hike with the dogs"
-SUP foiling Still a newbie here, but was kinda fun. Great work out and legs were exhausted by now as finished the day with it. More effort to lug a SUP foil to the beach and off the top of the car than a kite. However, it is enlightening seeing how we can now actually kinda surf in a condition that only had a few good waves for regular surf. Not sure it's really surfing though in a strict sense, but yet another way to ride waves that were previously unrideable, except on a 17 ft long fast surfski. Which is a ton of fun by the way.
-Regular SUP over at a Lake on a friends fast sup 14 ft long the next day. Great workout and moderately fun cruising the shoreline and breathing hard. Lake SUP does give you a time to look around and reflect on life I suppose and actually see the fish and water clarity underneath and talk to others while doing it. Tippy and fast surfski still more fun in my opinion, but everyone does SUP now it seems.
-Wing foiling With a 5.3 and big naish foil Did not make the wave riding more fun, but was nice not worrying about crossing kite lines in the air. Could only boost 2-4 ft off the water and it's a huge effort carrying that thing into the water with large board, large heavy foil, and wing sail thru the break zone. Pain to carry off the car or in the car and log it into the waves. If I only kited on a Lake with poor access to good kite launches and onshore conditions, or risky offshore conditions, I would mostly do Wing foiling.
--I didn't get a chance to windsurf foil or regular windsurf in this condition. Need the semi trailer to bring the booms and masts stored in there. Windsurf foiling not really conducive to waves and this amount of breeze for super fun. Rarely do either nowadays unless an old buddy talks me into it and it usually makes me feel old. Old style windsurf loops would of been fun and locked in doing 20 + knots Which can be alot of fun and a good workout Windsurfing just takes so much effort getting the gear to a launch these days. On those times when in I'm in Aruba or Cabarete, it is nice to grab a quick rental right on the beach to take a break from kiting, and remember what it was like when I was younger. It's just too cumbersome to lug that gear around I can kite instead, even travel with it on a plane.

So just my opinion....kite foiling topped all disciplines.

Wing foiling has it's place, but it certainly will not take over kiting, kite foiling, or racing in the long run. As the gear improves, it will become a better option for the windsurfers and if the designs get to the point where you can actually do 25 its +, then I will be doing it more. There are a large potential number of people because of their locale will likely spend most of there time with wing foiling. There are alot of people who don't have good kite locales. And kites do have more risk, especially for newbies.....but all that power is what gets some of us out there.

Anyhow.....sorry for the long post

This is somewhat similar to what's happened in water sports behind boats. Just more disciplines now. Wake boarding with tricks, slalom and going fast, 2 skis for beginners, tubing for everyone, knee boarding if your young and don't have osteoarthritis, wake surfing, and wake foiling. Which one to you use depends on the boat, location, wake you have, finances, and the experience of the person towed behind the boat. Thanks to foils behind boats, we all don't need a wave generating boat anymore to have fun.
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Re: Kite foiling is dying sooo fast

Postby fernmanus » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:50 pm

The wingding is great. In addition to boats, it gives us kiters another thing to boost over!

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