I think the newer Dice are somewhere between the Enduro and the Amp now. The older ones were similar. Different design philosophy though. Rob talks in his interviews about designing kites that fly well. The duotone kites are about performance (which to me is the end product). My take is that this difference is a bit like manual vs semi auto gear boxes in a performance car. For outright speed the auto is going to be better for most people, but there's a joy in itself in a manual gearbox.Havre wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:34 amInteresting view. So few that ride Orbits here. Only seen one 2020 and the person riding that one wasn't very skilled - so I have never spoken to an Orbit rider in "real life". A lot of Dice though. Never tried it myself, but by the way people describe riding the Dice it sounds very similar to my Enduros. I would expect the Orbit to be quite different from riding an Enduro to be honest?
Second trick: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CTWz_Kan ... =copy_linknothing2seehere wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:17 pmNaish had the Pivot but that was all about getting Kevin as high as possible in strong wind. I can't remember anyone trying a dangle pass on a Pivot ever.
Can you explain wich skill area is involved with orbit?dracop wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:16 amTotally disagree with the above. The 2021 Dice crushes the Orbit on low end. 2021 onwards the designer took alot of materials off the Dice and it improved the low end alot. Ive been impressed how low I can ride the Dice in terms of wind speed. Note that I am uncertain if there will be a Durability issue for taking off so mich material. I can ride my 10m Dice into the teens and still make it back to the beach easily (weigh 214 lbs in ocean environment).
The Orbit is great in high winds as is the Dice.
Have not yet tried the Dice 2022 SLS but if it does actually dly farther out in the wind window, its going to improve the low end even more.
The Orbit only does one thing nicer than the Dice and thats doing powered kiteloops. The Orbit is more technique driven and requires more skill than the Dice.
All of ly fellow instructors can make the Dice work for them whereas I seem to be the only one who can make the Orbit perform, to the point I jump higher than lighter weight riders weighing 100lbs less than me in the same wind on The same kite. The Orbit strongly rewards pro grade technique whereas the Dice is not so picky. Its pickier than a Rebel or XR, but you do not need to be a superhero to get the Dice to work. You do for the Orbit - most riders will believe the Or it is a soft pulling kite with good low end because they dont have the technique to activatw its power.
I haven't ridden the Dice since 2020, but I didn't think it changed that much in 2021. Happy to admit I could be wrong with the Dice low end vs Orbit, but I can also ride my 2020 10m in 18/19kn at 100kg and a 137x41 board. It's boring as shit and I have to work to stay upwind, but it goes. It admittedly doesn't become fun until ~25kn.dracop wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:16 amTotally disagree with the above. The 2021 Dice crushes the Orbit on low end. 2021 onwards the designer took alot of materials off the Dice and it improved the low end alot. I've been impressed how low I can ride the Dice in terms of wind speed. Note that I am uncertain if there will be a Durability issue for taking off so much material. I can ride my 10m Dice into the teens and still make it back to the beach easily (weigh 214 lbs in ocean environment).
The Orbit is great in high winds as is the Dice.
Have not yet tried the Dice 2022 SLS but if it does actually fly farther out in the wind window, its going to improve the low end even more.
The Orbit only does one thing nicer than the Dice and thats doing powered kiteloops. The Orbit is more technique driven and requires more skill than the Dice.
All of my fellow instructors can make the Dice work for them whereas I seem to be the only one who can make the Orbit perform, to the point I jump higher than lighter weight riders weighing 100lbs less than me in the same wind on The same kite. The Orbit strongly rewards pro grade technique whereas the Dice is not so picky. Its pickier than a Rebel or XR, but you do not need to be a superhero to get the Dice to work. You do for the Orbit - most riders will believe the Orbit is a soft pulling kite with good high end because they dont have the technique to activate its power.
The GTS/Orbit/Dice are all KOTA targeted kites which involves two key elements: power to jump high and how it loops. The Orbit and Dice both loop great, as a heavier weight rider I want as much power to get high enough to do proper megaloops. I can jump 15+m without a megaloop but its hard getting enough height for a competition stytle megaloop to the horizon off these kite unless the wind is nuking strong way past 35 kts. This makes it hard to practice megaloops due to availability of such wind conditions. So improving the power level of the kite ala the Dice SLS while keeping its loopabilitytis a winning formula imo!
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