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Height or weight more important for board size

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Mike101
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Re: Height or weight more important for board size

Postby Mike101 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:19 pm

I'd say it depends whether you want to replace your current board or run 2. If you go to the very small sizes you will struggle to get going on LW days and would ideally need to keep the 43. If you go to a sweet 41 it could be your one and only TT board. Less- but good- stuff is usually better.

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Re: Height or weight more important for board size

Postby Delta99 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:29 pm

Some pro coaches prioritize hight for kite selection. And in general not go too small and not be afraid of what used to be viewed as large. Boards have changed and size is not what it used to be. Here is Alex Pastor's advice.

https://shop.alexpastorkiteclub.com/blo ... -kiteboard

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Re: Height or weight more important for board size

Postby Havre » Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:04 am

Delta99 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:29 pm
Some pro coaches prioritize hight for kite selection. And in general not go too small and not be afraid of what used to be viewed as large. Boards have changed and size is not what it used to be. Here is Alex Pastor's advice.

https://shop.alexpastorkiteclub.com/blo ... -kiteboard
Obviously he should be more knowledgeable than me, but he never explains why. He says something like "some say weight is more important, but I think height" - right - why?

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Re: Height or weight more important for board size

Postby Kiterpep » Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:15 am

I would think that your height should be important, since it determines the lever arm length between your hook and edge. If you are 10% longer (e.g. 2m instead of 1.8m), your lever arm is 10% longer. This increase is slightly diminished since the force you apply is distributed over the lower half of your body, but most will come from your upper legs and core, so I would guess in the end the torque you can exert on your board is some 7-8% more, based on more length only. This increased torque should allow you to hold down a bigger board longer.

All that is even aside from the fact that long, lean kiteboarders are often relatively muscular, which should also help to hold down a bigger board compared to someone that is shorter at the same weight.
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Havre (Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:06 am)
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Re: Height or weight more important for board size

Postby Blackened » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:40 am

Kiterpep wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:15 am
I would think that your height should be important, since it determines the lever arm length between your hook and edge. If you are 10% longer (e.g. 2m instead of 1.8m), your lever arm is 10% longer. This increase is slightly diminished since the force you apply is distributed over the lower half of your body, but most will come from your upper legs and core, so I would guess in the end the torque you can exert on your board is some 7-8% more, based on more length only. This increased torque should allow you to hold down a bigger board longer.

All that is even aside from the fact that long, lean kiteboarders are often relatively muscular, which should also help to hold down a bigger board compared to someone that is shorter at the same weight.
A seat harness versus a waist harness and you'll have the same effect. If a board was truly designed for height, it would allow a wider stance width on the larger boards. Even on the giant LW boards they still have the same inserts.

In reality once you reach a certain level, board size becomes mostly preference for your chosen style and usual riding conditions. Toby uses a 128x39 at 95kg for airstyle. I use a 138x41 at 95kg for airstyle. I can do a few flashy boards offs and slides. Toby invented them.
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Havre (Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:06 am)
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Re: Height or weight more important for board size

Postby Havre » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:06 am

I can see the point with lever arm, but I find it hard to believe that someone that are 2m and 90kg or 120kg should be on the same board while someone 90kg and 2m or 1.75m should not.

The problem is that I personally haven't been 1.75m for quite some years - and when I was I didn't kitesurf.

I also agree that one will not have some sort of perfect objective measure telling you exactly what size you should buy based on height and/or weight. I can see why someone that are for the first time moving away from a "beginner" board is curious to learn as much as possible though before making a decision.

I hated riding on small boards starting out. Being more experienced it doesn't bother me much, but then again I cannot remember last time it felt like I was losing my edge because the board was too big (140x43 at 1.98m and 100kg+-). And I like to ride more powered up than most (most "normal" kiters not jumping 20m+, KOTA or whatever).

Also not all boards are the same of course. Reminds me a bit of buying saddles for bikes. In the end you kind of have to test them out. 138x41 is hardly going to be terribly wrong I would say.

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Re: Height or weight more important for board size

Postby Kiterpep » Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:47 pm

Blackened wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:40 am
Kiterpep wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:15 am
I would think that your height should be important, since it determines the lever arm length between your hook and edge. If you are 10% longer (e.g. 2m instead of 1.8m), your lever arm is 10% longer. This increase is slightly diminished since the force you apply is distributed over the lower half of your body, but most will come from your upper legs and core, so I would guess in the end the torque you can exert on your board is some 7-8% more, based on more length only. This increased torque should allow you to hold down a bigger board longer.

All that is even aside from the fact that long, lean kiteboarders are often relatively muscular, which should also help to hold down a bigger board compared to someone that is shorter at the same weight.
A seat harness versus a waist harness and you'll have the same effect. If a board was truly designed for height, it would allow a wider stance width on the larger boards. Even on the giant LW boards they still have the same inserts.

In reality once you reach a certain level, board size becomes mostly preference for your chosen style and usual riding conditions. Toby uses a 128x39 at 95kg for airstyle. I use a 138x41 at 95kg for airstyle. I can do a few flashy boards offs and slides. Toby invented them.
I have to agree that board skill >>> rider muscle power (which is correlated to weight) > rider length.

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Re: Height or weight more important for board size

Postby Herman » Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:54 pm

I suspect Toby's board thinks he is a light weight because so much of his weight is supported by that big kite he uses. Obviously weight, height and footsize are influential but so is the kite power you want to use. Maybe if you want to get comfortable on smaller boards you have a choice of : working down in stages (safe option), going radical (risk of being frustrated by amount of power needed) or trying to pick a happy medium. In any case you really need a quiver of boards to cope with different conditions unless you stick to a narrow band of riding.

If you have big gusty conditions and you stick with a very small board you will need to ride a bigger kite which puts you in the bigger risk or more exciting zone depending on your view point!

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Re: Height or weight more important for board size

Postby downunder » Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:41 pm

Funny read, this.

100 people, 101 opinions.

The board, in my books, is highly subjective. Toby has one single board. He is quite tall and bulky.

I have 120xm DIY. Im 169cm, and 59kg. Skinny. Riding flat water 90%.

How does this compare than? The board you like or not. Whats important is to stick with ONE board for years to completely develop muscle reflex.

And one cant do that with changing boards often.

HF is good example. Not easy to just switch.

D.

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Re: Height or weight more important for board size

Postby Herman » Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:50 pm

^^ That is a good point. Feeling comfortable on a particular board is worth a lot but I do use different boards for different conditions. My mind set, and this just what works for me, is to think that you are just using the TT and fins to manipulate your contact patch with the water. In steady state this patch has to provide the opposing force to the vector sum of kite pull and weight of the rider. Obviously, in practice, this contact patch has to be constantly manipulated and this manipulation is easier if it is a familiar board. Fortunately it is all done by feel!!!

Also it is a bit like changing kite size. If you have been on small kites for a while it takes time to dial back into the timing for big kites, or at least it does for me.

PS If I am going to ride a power hungry TT and I can carry extra gear to the beach I would generally choose to take an extra board rather than an extra kite, as changing boards is quicker than changing kites.


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