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heli loop not providing lift

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andylc
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Re: heli loop not providing lift

Postby andylc » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:43 pm

That sort of thing can only really be done with the float a foil kite can give. Impressive though.

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Re: heli loop not providing lift

Postby Faxie » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:17 pm

andylc wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:19 pm
Isn’t a ‘standard’ heliloop a forward loop??
After a big jump you'll go full downwind, so forward or backward don't apply. What matters is the kite position before the loop. Heliloops are done through 12.

My guess is the topicstarter is looping the kite too fast so it ends up too much upwind again. Also keeps the bar pulled in too much maybe. When your lines are crossed because of the loop, the effective length is less, so you might be stalling the kite.
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andylc
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Re: heli loop not providing lift

Postby andylc » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:28 pm

Good advice, that makes a lot of sense. I need to practice them more too...

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Re: heli loop not providing lift

Postby Herman » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:53 pm

If you have backstall in your sheeting range it might be worth trimming in a little before your next attempts, you may find this prevents some of the stall and increase the power. If it does you need to finesse the sheeting. It might also be interesting to check how much you can eyeball the kite before spotting your landing.

To me it is more natural to use a downloop for transition because only 3/4 of the loop is required to get the kite flying in the ride out direction. To kiteloop in the same ride direction it would be more natural to me to kite loop as you only need 3/4 of the loop to get the kite flying in the original direction. Down loops start from back of window and kite loop start from front of the window. This means that kite will be on downward arc as you ride out. However I think some might call these landing loops rather than a heliloop. The heliloop is a full loop. If you do the full loop you will be riding out in the opposite directions to the 3/4 loop and will need to complete the last upward part of the arc before diving the kite and riding away. The full 360 will give you a bigger window of opportunity for a soft landing. There are also heliloops as a full 360 at height used to maintain and control height for big air and these are done before the landing loop. I am just happy boosting of a ramp without full preload and so do not dabble with those.

PS Get high with Mike did a really good video on proper big air heliloops but you will need proper big air to use the swing effects that he was exploiting with big open loops.
Last edited by Herman on Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: heli loop not providing lift

Postby blackswan » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:37 am

Faxie wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:17 pm

My guess is the topicstarter is looping the kite too fast so it ends up too much upwind again. Also keeps the bar pulled in too much maybe. When your lines are crossed because of the loop, the effective length is less, so you might be stalling the kite.
I think you might be right. I have been pulling in the bar all the way and sending the loop as quickly/tightly as possible but maybe this is not the best approach? I will try a wider loop next time.

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Re: heli loop not providing lift

Postby edt » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:37 am

Need a video to figure out what is happening.

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Re: heli loop not providing lift

Postby nothing2seehere » Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:17 am

Toby wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:36 pm
That video is a lift loop
Genuine question. What's the difference?

I've seen plenty of people use a late heliloop just before landing and get a little increase in height. You can see it often at KOTA (though its always just before landing rather than high in the air so you don't have the opportunity to keep looping for max hangtime). My understanding is you are using the swing effect against the kite to provide the lift (hence it must be/or go behind you). Note I'm using lift to cover an upward force and the actual observable effect may be just to slow the descent.

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Re: heli loop not providing lift

Postby cor » Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:37 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:59 pm
But heliloops does not increase overall hangtime, not possible.
Not possible? Of course you have more hang time wenn doing heliloops, unless your definition of hang time is something else than not touching the water after apex.

I am btw not sure if we all have the same definition of "heliloop" because we keep talking about different things; A heliloop is a kiteloop. What makes it a "heliloop" is that it is being initiated after the Apex with the forehand or the backhand. And it´s called "heliloop" because it rotates over your head like a heli because the kite had time to ascent to the top of the wind window after a jump.
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Re: heli loop not providing lift

Postby Leon van Bergen » Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:54 am

Check 2:30, 3 Heliloops and he almost double the hangtime (14sec).

''heliloops not increase overall hangtime, not possible'' ???


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Re: heli loop not providing lift

Postby Herman » Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:28 am

^^The length is not important it is the quality of the fun. To bottom out that discussion you need to do the maths, and explain how a loop could be more efficient than straight forward glide slope flying. Can you transfer your own energy into the flying system. Just because forward motion kinetic energy is transferred into height potential energy at the landing giving the impression of increased hang time................


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